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Debate for Lester

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Horned Lizard Forum ]

Posted by Jeff Judd on April 26, 2003 at 22:00:45:

In Reply to: Horned Lizards and Laws posted by Les4toads on April 26, 2003 at 20:55:37:

:At present, there are no Federally listed species of horned lizards.
:The Flattail Horned Lizard, Phrynosoma mcalli, is in the litigation process for listing as Threatened. It is in the Appeals process now.

:Nevada allows commercial collection of two species of horned lizard: The Desert Horned Lizard, Phrynosoma platyrhinos and the Short-horned Lizard, Phrynosoma hernandezi. The status on the Pygmy Short-horned Lizard, Phrynosoma douglasi, is in discussion because of its "new species" status (MDNA analysis seperates it from the P. hernandezi).

:Texas allows commercial collection of the Roundtail Horned Lizard, Phrynosoma modestum. (This status is in review by the State Legislature and Texas Parks and Wildlife).

:California protects all horned lizard species ( P. coronaum, P. douglasi, P. platyrhinos, and P. mcalli). Permits required for all species, even the Desert Horned Lizard, Phrynosoma platyrhinos. (The Coast Horned Lizard, both subspecies of Coronatum Group are also protected by CITES).

:The Texas Horned Lizard, Phrynosoma cornutum, is protected throughout its range. In Texas and Oklahoma, it is listed as Threatened.

:Very few states have "bag limits" anymore. Even HLs collected by hunting/fishing licenses have regulations concerning their possession. The horned lizards cannot be sold, traded or removed from the state from which they are collected. Offspring may not be sold, traded or removed from state of collection. The offspring may not be reintroduced into the wild unless by scientific research permit. Any offspring bred in captivity must be turned over to the state or educational institution of that state.

:These are the laws that are current and updated by the states that have HLs. I get updates every year from the state wildlife management agencies and fish and game departments. I work with the different agencies. (and I said worked with, not for). As a Conservation Biologist, it is my job to know this information. In writing Environmental Impact Reports and Environmental Impact Statements, and reviewing such documentation, I have to know this information.

:Lester G. Milroy III
I disagree the texas horned lizard is protected throughout it's range. Just in Arizona 4 can be taken with a fishing license along with the regal, desert, short-horned, and rountail and some others(section A). The only horned lizard protected in Arizona is mcalli(section F) Excerpt :COMMISSION ORDER 43: REPTILES
Open Season Dates Notes Open Areas Legal Reptiles
A. January 1 through December 31, 2002 1, 2, 5, 6, 7 and 10 Statewide, except areas All reptiles, except those named in Subsections
closed in Notes 5, 6, and 7 B, C, D, E, and F
BAG AND POSSESSION LIMIT: Four (4) per year or in possession of each species live or dead.
B. January 1 through December 31, 2002 1, 2, 5, 6, and 10 Statewide, except areas Crotalus atrox (western diamondback
closed in Notes 5 and 6 rattlesnake) and C. scutulatus (Mojave
BAG AND POSSESSION LIMIT: Four (4) per day or in possession of each species live or dead.
C. January 1 through December 31, 2002 1, 2, 5, 6, and 10 Statewide, except areas Lichanura trivirgata (rosy boa), Senticolis
closed in Notes 5 and 6 triaspis (green rat snake), Lampropeltis
pyromelana (Sonoran mountain kingsnake),
and Lampropeltis triangulum (milk snake).
BAG AND POSSESSION LIMIT: Two (2) per year or four (4) in possession of each species live or dead.
D. January 1 through December 31, 2002 1, 2, 5, 6, and 10 Statewide, except areas Sceloporus undulatus (prairie/plateau lizard),
closed in Notes 5 and 6 Tantilla hobartsmithi (southwestern blackheaded
snake), and all species in the genera: Callisaurus
(zebratail lizard), Cnemidophorus (whiptails),
Coleonyx (banded gecko), Cophosaurus (greater
earless lizard), Holbrookia (lesser earless lizard),
Urosaurus (tree lizard), Uta (side-blotched lizard),
Hypsiglena (night snake), Leptotyphlops (blind
snake), and Sonora (ground snake)
BAG AND POSSESSION LIMIT: Twenty (20) per day or in possession in the aggregate live or dead.
E. January 1 through December 31, 2002 1, 5, 6, 8, 9, and10 Statewide, except areas Apalone spinifera (spiny softshell), Trachemys scripta
closed in Notes 5, 6, and 9 (slider), and all species of the family Chelydridae
(snapping turtles).
F. There is no open season on Phrynosoma mcallii (flat-tail horned lizard), Heloderma suspectum (Gila monster), Crotalus lepidus (rock rattlesnake),
Crotalus pricei (twin-spotted rattlesnake), Crotalus willardi (ridgenose rattlesnake), Sistrurus catenatus (massasauga), and Gopherus agassizii (desert
tortoise); see Notes 3 and 4.
Look for yourself here :
If you have an out out of state hunting license and follow the bag limits they sure can be exported I called to confirm this I have the license to do so. You can sell captive bred offspring(If it is not native to your state), it is done by the thousands of many different species of reptiles.

In california the only protected reptiles are excerpt :
42. Protected Reptiles.

Except under special permit from the department issued pursuant to sections 650 and 670.5 of these regulations, or Section 2081 of the Fish and Game Code, none of the following reptiles may be taken or possessed at any time.

(a) Blunt-nosed leopard lizard (Gambelia sila).

(b) Banded Gila monster (Heloderma suspectum cinctum).

(c) Southern rubber boa (Charina bottae umbratica).

(d) Alameda whipsnake (Masticophis lateralis euryxanthus).

(e) San Francisco garter snake (Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia).

(f) Giant garter snake (Thamnophis gigas).

(g) Desert tortoise (Gopherus agassizi).

(h) Panamint alligator lizard (Gerrhonotus panamintinus).

(i) Sonora mud turtle (Kinosternon sonoriense).

(j) Island night lizard (Xantusia riversiana).

(k) Flat-tailed horned lizard (Phrynosoma mcallii).

(l) San Diego mountain kingsnake (Lampropeltis zonata pulchra).

(m) Coachella Valley fringe-toed lizard (Uma inornata).

(n) Switak's barefoot gecko (Coleonyx switaki).

(o) Leaf-toed gecko (Phyllodactylus xanti).

(p) Granite night lizard (Xantusia henshawi).

(q) Orange-throated whiptail (Cnemidophorus hyperythrus).

(r) Black legless lizard (Anniella pulchra nigra).

(s) Coast horned lizard (Phrynosoma coronatum).

(t) Western pond turtle (Clemmys marmorata).

(u) San Joaquin coachwhip (Masticophis flagellum ruddocki).

(v) Two striped garter snake (Thamnophis hammondii).

four of the other species may be possessed see for you self here :


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