Re: Looking in the horse's mouth from the wrong end

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Posted by Andy on August 04, 1999 at 00:45:03:

In Reply to: Re: for Harry's Dad... posted by filthy on August 03, 1999 at 21:50:52:

First of all, I applaud those who take on the considerable time, money and effort to "rescue" iguanas. With all the iguanas bought on impulse and kept in terrible conditions, there is a real need for this kind of thing. BUT, the majority of you are tackling the problem from the wrong end. There aren't alot of captive bred iguanas out there, most are "farmed" in their native countries. The way "farming" is supposed to work is that a number of wild igs are captured and bred season after season. What really happens is that gravid females are collected, kept until their eggs drop, and released, with the same cycle happening year after year, thus depleting wild populations. The iguanas that end up on the doorsteps of rescue organizations or die of neglect in an aquarium technically should have been wild. So we have established the fact that the iguana trade "as is"(with almost no captive breeding) depletes wild stocks. To put it bluntly, if people are going to let igs die, I would rather see them come from within the "pet scene", not the wild.

So then ask yourself, "Why do the wrong people end up with these lizards in the first place?" A big part of the answer is $$. If you could buy a blue tegu for $20, there would probably be one hell of alot of "orphan" blue tegus. Since they run around $700, you can be sure that no one is buying them for their kid's birthday, or because their goldfish died. It is very easy for some people to get an ig, kill it through ignorance, get another one, kill it, ect. when they cost a measly 20 bucks. And that is on the consumer level, wholesalers can get baby igs for 50 cents. What do they care if 75 out of 200 die before they get there? They still made a profit. Why are they so cheap? Again, because it's a hell of alot cheaper to incubate wild eggs than it is to maintain a viable breeding colony of green igs. As long as igs are sold at "disposable" prices, people are going to treat them as such. Wait until those albino igs become established and see how many of them are neglected. Which brings me to my last point....

Captive bred animals are consistently of a "higher" quality. People WILL pay more for an animal that is free from parasites, un-stressed, plump, and in all around better shape than a skinny animal that has bashed it's snout to a pulp. captive bred animals are accustomed to captivity from the start, leaving them less stressed, leaving their immune system in better shape, leaving them healthier. I myself will(and have) paid double the price of wild-caught for happy captive-bred reptiles. And as I said, these are coming from within the hobby, leaving wild populations intact. (A point I cannot over-stress) I just don't see the logic in your collective position. By condemning captive breeding, you guys are shooting yourselves in the foot. The way the ig trade is now, you could find a home for every ig out there and there would be thousands more to take their place. You could stamp out every captive ig breeding effort in th WORLD, and you wouldn't be stopping the tide of unwanted igs by a decimal point. THERE ARE ALMOST NO CB IGS OUT THERE NOW. They CANNOT be part of the problem, for all intents and purposes they don't even exist. If you want to stop the flow of orphan igs, target those corrupt "farms". As long as they are selling igs so cheap, the wrong people buy them, and then they become your problem. Your heart is truly in the right place, but your head is not. (BTW, I hope this doesn't come off as a "flame", the caps are for emphasis) =)

Later,

Andy

Follow Ups:

Re: Looking in the horse's mouth from the wrong end Ziggy's Mom 8/04/99 (6)
- Re: Education and it's incentives Andy 8/04/99 (5)
  - Re: Good discussion filthy 8/04/99 (4)
    - Way to Go Joan 8/04/99 (3)
      - I agree!! Juby 8/04/99 (2)
        
        Re: Talk's cheap. What's to be done? (lONG, TIRESOME POST) filthy 8/04/99 (1)
        
        Breeding......captive vs wild......VS anti-breeding....VS education....VS.....LAWS Harry's Dad 8/04/99 (0)

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: First of all, I applaud those who take on the considerable time, money and effort to "rescue" iguanas. With all the iguanas bought on impulse and kept in terrible conditions, there is a real need for this kind of thing. BUT, the majority of you are tackling the problem from the wrong end. There aren't alot of captive bred iguanas out there, most are "farmed" in their native countries. The way "farming" is supposed to work is that a number of wild igs are captured and bred season after season. What really happens is that gravid females are collected, kept until their eggs drop, and released, with the same cycle happening year after year, thus depleting wild populations. The iguanas that end up on the doorsteps of rescue organizations or die of neglect in an aquarium technically should have been wild. So we have established the fact that the iguana trade "as is"(with almost no captive breeding) depletes wild stocks. To put it bluntly, if people are going to let igs die, I would rather see them come from within the "pet scene", not the wild. : So then ask yourself, "Why do the wrong people end up with these lizards in the first place?" A big part of the answer is $$. If you could buy a blue tegu for $20, there would probably be one hell of alot of "orphan" blue tegus. Since they run around $700, you can be sure that no one is buying them for their kid's birthday, or because their goldfish died. It is very easy for some people to get an ig, kill it through ignorance, get another one, kill it, ect. when they cost a measly 20 bucks. And that is on the consumer level, wholesalers can get baby igs for 50 cents. What do they care if 75 out of 200 die before they get there? They still made a profit. Why are they so cheap? Again, because it's a hell of alot cheaper to incubate wild eggs than it is to maintain a viable breeding colony of green igs. As long as igs are sold at "disposable" prices, people are going to treat them as such. Wait until those albino igs become established and see how many of them are neglected. Which brings me to my last point.... : Captive bred animals are consistently of a "higher" quality. People WILL pay more for an animal that is free from parasites, un-stressed, plump, and in all around better shape than a skinny animal that has bashed it's snout to a pulp. captive bred animals are accustomed to captivity from the start, leaving them less stressed, leaving their immune system in better shape, leaving them healthier. I myself will(and have) paid double the price of wild-caught for happy captive-bred reptiles. And as I said, these are coming from within the hobby, leaving wild populations intact. (A point I cannot over-stress) I just don't see the logic in your collective position. By condemning captive breeding, you guys are shooting yourselves in the foot. The way the ig trade is now, you could find a home for every ig out there and there would be thousands more to take their place. You could stamp out every captive ig breeding effort in th WORLD, and you wouldn't be stopping the tide of unwanted igs by a decimal point. THERE ARE ALMOST NO CB IGS OUT THERE NOW. They CANNOT be part of the problem, for all intents and purposes they don't even exist. If you want to stop the flow of orphan igs, target those corrupt "farms". As long as they are selling igs so cheap, the wrong people buy them, and then they become your problem. Your heart is truly in the right place, but your head is not. (BTW, I hope this doesn't come off as a "flame", the caps are for emphasis) =) : Later, : Andy

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