Re: Stomach acid revisited.

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Posted by A. C. Highfield on July 05, 2000 at 08:47:42:

In Reply to: Stomach acid revisited. posted by EJ on July 05, 2000 at 01:42:44:

: >Mentions nothing about reptiles

That is because these products are not licensed for reptiles - but it does not take much in the way of intelligence (I would have thought) to draw useful comparisons...

: Baytril is a broad spectrum antibiotic. Add to a sensitive (bacterial) symbiotic flora and I would have thought that the
: consequences would be 24 karat self-evident....

: >So this is an assumption on your part then.

Are you for real? I also "assume" the earth is not flat, although never having been in orbit personally, you understand, I merely rely upon external sources......

: : My friend did mention that a gut flora imbalance in grazing mammals which is lethal was caused by the overuse of
: antibiotics but that there was no evidence for this in grazing tortoises.

: Nonsense. Pray, what's the functional difference?

: >You�re saying there is no physiological difference between Mammals and Reptiles?

I am saying that there are precious few functional differences between grazing mammalian herbivores and reptilian herbivores, yes. Certainly in terms of digestive tract physiology and their employment of symbiotic flora to aid cellulose digestion.

: : It was mentioned that stomach Ph is about 2 which I think is as acid as you can get.

: Are we talking ol' Mississippi 'gators here, or tortoises? A tortoise with a gut pH of 2 is in big trouble. That's acidosis.
: Actual, normal, healthy range is around 6.5 to 7.2. As gut pH falls below 5, tissue damage and production of endotoxins will occur.

: > Normal (?) low is about 2.0 and the high is (now this surprised me) is as high as 8.0 for the gastric juices of Testudo graeca depending on if it is fasting or if it is feeding. Ph is obviously related to gastric juice production which is related to feeding and temperature so it is not fixed.

No. It is not fixed. But below 5.0 is abnormal and should give rise for concern. At 2.0 you would have a massive die-off of healthy commensals and consequential generation of potentially fatal endotoxins. T. graeca does not employ an acid-based digestion, so if you obtained a reading of 2.0, either the methodology was suspect or this tortoise was suffering from acidosis...

Tortoise Trust

Follow Ups:

Re: Stomach acid revisited. EJ 07/05/00 (12)
- Re: Stomach acid revisited. A. C. Highfield 07/06/00 (11)
  - Re: Stomach acid revisited. EJ 07/06/00 (2)
    - Re: Stomach acid revisited. A. C. Highfield 07/07/00 (1)
      - Ok Andy. I'm sorry. I wont do it again. n/p EJ 07/07/00 (0)
  - BS n/p EJ 07/06/00 (7)
    - Re: BS n/p - A reference for you EJ A. C. Highfield 07/07/00 (6)
      - Re: BS n/p - A reference for you EJ EJ 07/07/00 (5)
        
        Re: BS n/p - ANOTHER referene for you... A. C. Highfield 07/07/00 (4)
        
        Re: BS n/p - ANOTHER referene for you... EJ 07/07/00 (3)
        
        Re: BS n/p - ANOTHER reference for you... A. C. Highfield 07/07/00 (2)
        
        Thanks EJ 07/07/00 (1)
        
        Pirog, you were the obnoxious one, with your "more B/S" posts!!! Frank Furter 07/07/00 (0)
Re:Acid digestion? Eric T 07/05/00 (6)
- Re:Acid digestion? A. C. Highfield 07/06/00 (5)
  - More BS n/p EJ 07/06/00 (3)
    - Re: More BS n/p A. C. Highfield 07/07/00 (2)
      - Re: More BS n/p EJ 07/07/00 (1)
        
        Re: More BS A. C. Highfield 07/07/00 (0)
  - Re:Thanks for the answer! --n/p Eric T. 07/06/00 (0)

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: : : >Mentions nothing about reptiles : That is because these products are not licensed for reptiles - but it does not take much in the way of intelligence (I would have thought) to draw useful comparisons... : : Baytril is a broad spectrum antibiotic. Add to a sensitive (bacterial) symbiotic flora and I would have thought that the : : consequences would be 24 karat self-evident.... : : >So this is an assumption on your part then. : Are you for real? I also "assume" the earth is not flat, although never having been in orbit personally, you understand, I merely rely upon external sources...... : : : : My friend did mention that a gut flora imbalance in grazing mammals which is lethal was caused by the overuse of : : antibiotics but that there was no evidence for this in grazing tortoises. : : Nonsense. Pray, what's the functional difference? : : >You�re saying there is no physiological difference between Mammals and Reptiles? : I am saying that there are precious few functional differences between grazing mammalian herbivores and reptilian herbivores, yes. Certainly in terms of digestive tract physiology and their employment of symbiotic flora to aid cellulose digestion. : : : : It was mentioned that stomach Ph is about 2 which I think is as acid as you can get. : : Are we talking ol' Mississippi 'gators here, or tortoises? A tortoise with a gut pH of 2 is in big trouble. That's acidosis. : : Actual, normal, healthy range is around 6.5 to 7.2. As gut pH falls below 5, tissue damage and production of endotoxins will occur. : : > Normal (?) low is about 2.0 and the high is (now this surprised me) is as high as 8.0 for the gastric juices of Testudo graeca depending on if it is fasting or if it is feeding. Ph is obviously related to gastric juice production which is related to feeding and temperature so it is not fixed. : No. It is not fixed. But below 5.0 is abnormal and should give rise for concern. At 2.0 you would have a massive die-off of healthy commensals and consequential generation of potentially fatal endotoxins. T. graeca does not employ an acid-based digestion, so if you obtained a reading of 2.0, either the methodology was suspect or this tortoise was suffering from acidosis...

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