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Posted by Lyle on January 03, 2003 at 19:31:08:
In Reply to: Re: About time? posted by Mr. D on January 03, 2003 at 09:34:47:
"It's about accountability, Lyle. You said so yourself in so much as "I don't see why it should be the responsibility of the person who's selling the animal to educate the buyer on the species in question, though I do think it's a good idea for the seller to make sure the buyer knows what they're getting into." I don't know the last time I saw a sentence do a quicker 180* turn without being attached to a politician's lips."
Please explain why you think stating that it's a good idea for dealers to inform buyers of the care requirements of the animals they've purchased somehow contradicts the first part of my sentence. Saying such does not suggest that I believe it is, or should be, the dealers RESPONSIBILITY to do so.
"Poor analogy here but you've got to be 21 to legally purchase alcohol. There are regulations in place to help ensure that if either the distributor or the end user decide to be "lazy" consequences will be met."
Yeah, and look at how successful those laws have been in bringing an end to alcohol abuse and "underage" drinking.
"The problem in the reptile industry is that there are no real consequences for either the distributor OR the consumer because, let's face it, BOTH the distributor (pet shop) and consumer (JQP) are LAZY when it comes to proper husbandry info."
That's a pretty broad statement.
"There are already regulations (laws - gasp again!) in place to help ensure that the consumer properly cares for the animals in question in the form of animal cruelty RSA's. The problem HERE is that there are very few people willing to uphold the cruelty RSA's because they consider them trivial for one reason or another - animal cruelty isn't a "real" crime."
The problem is that there are always problems. I'm sure all of these laws were created with good intentions, but what good are they? Show me one law regulating our hobby that's actually been good for it.
"Tell you what, Lyle. Come up with a better solution for regulating the reptile industry."
I'm not going to play that game. Many people think that if things were just done THEIR way, everything would be better. Afterall, THEY have it all figured out. THEY could write a perfect law that would do what it was designed to without creating any problems. I don't have such an illusion.
"Just do it quick because organizations that have little or nothing to do with it directly are deciding the future of the industry/hobby. The AR organizations are influencing uninformed politicians at every level thereby taking away reptile keepers rights almost daily."
They aren't taking away my rights. As I've said before, I'm not going to let the prejudices of today's society run my life. I don't have the time or the will to keep track of what is and what isn't considered socially acceptable from day to day.
"The time for "self policing" for the industry is and always has been now but that's no longer good enough."
Not for people with the illusion that things could be perfect if only we had "better" laws. An isolated act of stupidity occurs and everyone says that self-regulation isn't working. I think the fact that such acts are isolated contradicts those claims. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see a problem with our hobby as a whole. The fact that care information is available to anyone who wants it shows just how far we've come. The fact that it hasn't kept some people from abusing their animals just shows that some people choose to remain ignorant/lazy even when another option is available. No law can change that.
"Heck, the Doris Day Animal League began the caresheet bill. Do they have anything to do with reptiles? Somehow I don't think so yet what they accomplished at the state government level directly affects the reptile industry. Like it or not, Lyle, somewhere along the line the reptile keepers are going to have to start playing at the same level and familiarize ourselves with governmental (gasp!) processes because everyone else is already there and regulating things FOR us. The only way to ensure that the hobby/industry is regulated fairly is to be part of the lawmaking (gasp!) process."
Never thought I'd hear "regulated" and "fairly" in the same sentence, but whatever. Anyway, don't let me get in your way. Feel free to play their game. Personally, after hearing countless opinions from herpers on how THEY think our hobby should be regulated, I don't think there's anything those animal rights groups could do to us that would be worse than what we'd do to ourselves, given the power. I've seen very heated arguments between herpers when discussing how our hobby should be regulated. Just about every system I've heard suggested sounds very oppressive, so why should I bother getting involved? So I could give my own suggestion that would p#ss everyone off cause they think it's too open? Afterall, everyone here seems to think that a permit system and random inspections are the key. Sorry, but I've already tried to get involved and that didn't go over well. At this point, I would rather watch the hobby self-destruct from a safe distance than be caught in the blast.