Not all of us have kids

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Venomous Snake Forum ]

Posted by jared w on May 11, 2003 at 19:17:02:

In Reply to: somewhat can see your point of view, but..... posted by oreganus on May 11, 2003 at 18:28:30:

And there is quite a bit of difference comparing what is traditionally a reaction based animal(the snake) to an active mammalian predator like a lion. Snakes do not seek out human prey unless the animal is in excess of 20+ft and even these circumstances are quite rare. Filing a lions teeth to make it safe for a keeper is wrong, you are obviously intimidated by the animal and therfore should not work with it until you do some more research. Same with hots, and venomoids. Venomoids have always been a money issue, I remember when they first started hiting pricelists and prices were threw the roof. All I am saying is it comes down to a DVMs ethics, as well as how badly they need money, because humans will innately do anything to advance themselves, despite what is destroyed in the process. Venomoids are wrong, and personally if ya caint take the heat, dont take a natural defense from an animal to make you feel more comfortable. And as I stated prior, I know lots of hot keepers without children and those that do have children have all of there animals properly contained.

Jared

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:I only have an inquiry on the following part of your post:

:"Sure, it's my right to keep a lion in my house with children if I want, I'll just spend an extra $300 and have its teeth and claws knocked out. The obvious answer is that neither lions nor venomous snakes belong in the house with children. If you cannot house a wild animal safely and humanely, leave it in the wild."

:At this logic, you should be jumping on almost everyone on this forum, because I would definately bet that most have children and venomous. It is not the fact they are in the same house, it is more a issue of the proper conditions and security measures(IE: seperate secure room, secured locked cages,ect.). As far as keeping animals humanely, I have yet to see a zoo that kept large elephants,girafs,whales, primates,ect in a humane condition. Can they live and be pain free,YES, but is merely stagnating away a life they deserve? NO.
:Kevin

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:::I am so sick of hearing about VENOMOID rants when half of these supposed "legit" herpers rape & pillage wild populations whenever they get the opppurtunity to make fifty cents.

::I can't say as I know every herper with an opinion, but the ones I do know who oppose the practice of making venomoids are not dealers. In fact it is the dealers who seem to be quite happy to make money on venomoids in the same way they make money on WC imports - by refusing to spend any time or money on proper veterinary care.

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::: Most of these "nosey" non-venomoiders are low-down shady importers who could care less about the health of the animals (or their keepers).

::All of the importers I know don't really care about the venomoid issue except that they can make more money selling venomoids. Dealers tend to see snakes as scaly dollar signs instead of living feeling creatures, which means they are usually pro-venomoid if anything.

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:::If someone wants to spend an extra $300 on an animal to have it Venomoid that is their right to do so!! It is far better than spending $30,000 in hospital bills & legal fines. What if there are children that live in the house w/ venomous animals?

::Sure, it's my right to keep a lion in my house with children if I want, I'll just spend an extra $300 and have its teeth and claws knocked out. The obvious answer is that neither lions nor venomous snakes belong in the house with children. If you cannot house a wild animal safely and humanely, leave it in the wild.

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::: You say no VENOMOIDS - I say no wild-caught animals. There are exceptions - rare species & oddball mutations that wouldn't make it in the wild anyways. I guarantee more animals die from being plucked out of the wild than animals being operated on to make them safe captives. I say shame on you for trying to sell that parasite infested crap - leave it in the wild where it belongs & quite making yourselves look like "know-it-all" nazis!!!!

::I agree; the amount of suffering inflicted on imported WC snakes is horrendous and on a massive scale. Most reptile dealers do not bother treating their animals for parasites, or giving them any real care for that matter. It doesn't matter, they say - the snake will be sold soon anyways. They don't care that the person the snake is being sold to probably won't treat it either, and the animal will die.

::If I could push a button and make all commercial importation of wildlife stop, I would. I have seen too many infected noose wounds, broken ribs, shattered jaws and snakes literally eaten alive from the inside by parasites. I do what I can for some of these animals on a case by case basis, and I discourage importers from paying the shippers for injured animals. But all that I can afford to do is a very small drop in the bucket compared to the number of sick and injured animals that are taken from the wild for the pet trade.

::The fact that this suffering is happening on a massive scale still doesn't make it okay to hurt and damage snakes for fun. One evil does not justify another. Some people hurt snakes so they can capture them and sell them for money. I've seen them come in with missing tails, shattered jaws, broken bones, etc. Some people hurt snakes that are already in captivity so they can make more money. I don't see a lot of difference here - in both cases you're inflicting injury on a snake for profit.

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:::I keep both hot & venomoids (10+ yrs.) & refuse to believe that removing the venom glands from an animal is the same as filing down a dog's teeth!!

::An adenectomy or ductectomy is a major invasive surgery. If you would like to educate yourself more thoroughly on the way the procedure is normally performed with inappropriate instruments and inadequate pain medication, I suggest you discuss it with a veterinarian who has cleaned up after some of the messes left by backyard butchers.

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::: Ludacris comparison. Stay out of others business or someone may aim for your glass house. P.S. Keep your parasite & bacteria infested crap away from my table - yuk!!

::Um, who are you talking to? I don't think there are any importers or dealers on this forum who are anti-venomoid.
::

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Follow Ups:

Not all of us have kids robin 05/11/03 (13)
- Not all of us have kids jared w 05/12/03 (1)
  - Guessing at the message MsTT 05/12/03 (0)
- Your pleasure, a snake's pain. MsTT 05/11/03 (10)
  - Just cant take it anymore snkkpr01 05/12/03 (5)
    - Just cant take it anymore jared w 05/12/03 (0)
    - Just cant take it anymore MsTT 05/12/03 (3)
      - Unfortunately..... tj 05/12/03 (2)
        
        Testify my brother, Money speaks volumes to the human mind jared w 05/12/03 (0)
        
        Unfortunately..... MsTT 05/12/03 (0)
  - Your pleasure, a snake's pain. robin 05/11/03 (3)
    - Your pleasure, a snake's pain. MsTT 05/12/03 (2)
      - Your pleasure, a snake's pain. robin 05/12/03 (1)
        
        Your pleasure, a snake's pain. MsTT 05/12/03 (0)