Good point.

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Posted by Jaffo on May 10, 2002 at 13:04:01:

In Reply to: Re: Fine posted by ADAMS on May 10, 2002 at 12:45:13:

" The only problem I see is that too many times, questions asked on this site are answered with unprovoked, needlessly aggressive responses. It just seems like some people with lots of knowledge that frequent this forum, have big chips on their shoulders for whatever reason. You have mentioned in the past that you are concerned for the integrity of this hobby and this forum. It's just my opinion that treating less knowledgable guests to this forum like they are complete idiots and not answering their questions honestly and humbly undermines that integrity."

>>> Well stated. I suppose I have just spent enough time on these forums and in the herp hobby that I can smell BS intentions from a mile away. I suppose I do have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to potentialy damaging behavior within the hobby. Look at it this way: there are herp hobbyists, and there are herp hobbyists who are also naturalists. My patience is wearing thin for those interested only in selfish gain as it relates to snakes. More and more the entire herp market and captive hobby seems to be so superficial and anti-nature. Man-made marketability and commercialization seems to be becoming a major detriment to these animals and their integrity in the wild. So yes, I am concerned for the integrity of this hobby as it has been. But I am finding less and less folks involved who seem to value where it all comes from. Like the individual who posted lately b!tching about having to learn scientific names for the snakes he supposedly "loves". He doesn't even own a field guide, and knows snakes only by common names used in herp ads. This seems a bit disgusting to me, and maybe the naturalist hobby is too old-fashioned and becoming extinct. If this is the case, I am perfectly happy becoming a lost relic right along with it. But until either of these events take place, I will probably remain somewhat unaccepting of shallow disregard within the hobby, and the exploitation of beautiful animals.

Captive snakes are fine. They are dead to nature anyway. But when the ignorance becomes so blatant, it is very unattractive to me. Yes, I do have a chip on my shoulder about that.

If you love the snakes, you aren't going to collect them in numbers to sell to people you don't even know. If you love the snakes, you are going to learn everything there is to know about them, and apply appropriate effort in reading real books about them, and even learn scientific names. If you love the snakes, you probably won't choose to have them made into venomoids. Even if you do, you will spoil the hell out of them, and give the the species-specific care they deserve, based on what you know about that species.

All of the above considered, I still firmly stand by my comments as of late: If someone is a total idiot, and this is obvious, they have no business owning ANY live animal. They will hear my opinion about it on this forum.

Take care man. Thanks for the discussion.

Jaffo

Follow Ups:

That individual is me! Jon 05/10/02 (16)
- Okie dokie... Jaffo 05/10/02 (15)
  - Can this really be Jaffo?.... Jeff M 05/11/02 (5)
    - Re: Can this really be Jaffo?.... Holmes 05/11/02 (3)
      - Really wasn't meant as an insult..... Jeff M 05/12/02 (2)
        
        Re: Really wasn't meant as an insult..... Holmes 05/12/02 (1)
        
        No problem.... Jeff M 05/12/02 (0)
    - Once again... Jaffo 05/11/02 (0)
  - Thank you & apology accepted.... Jon 05/10/02 (8)
    - Recommended reading.. Francis 05/10/02 (0)
    - Now see there...we CAN just all get along!np ADAMS 05/10/02 (5)
      - Sure we can-- that's because... Jaffo 05/10/02 (4)
        
        WOO HOO....I'm rankin with the big dawgs already!! n/p Jon 05/10/02 (2)
        
        I don't claim big dawg status... ADAMS 05/10/02 (1)
        
        Me neither... Jaffo 05/10/02 (0)
        
        lol...np ADAMS 05/10/02 (0)
    - Field Guides Jafo 05/10/02 (0)
Agree...nuff said np ADAMS 05/10/02 (0)

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: " The only problem I see is that too many times, questions asked on this site are answered with unprovoked, needlessly aggressive responses. It just seems like some people with lots of knowledge that frequent this forum, have big chips on their shoulders for whatever reason. You have mentioned in the past that you are concerned for the integrity of this hobby and this forum. It's just my opinion that treating less knowledgable guests to this forum like they are complete idiots and not answering their questions honestly and humbly undermines that integrity." : >>> Well stated. I suppose I have just spent enough time on these forums and in the herp hobby that I can smell BS intentions from a mile away. I suppose I do have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to potentialy damaging behavior within the hobby. Look at it this way: there are herp hobbyists, and there are herp hobbyists who are also naturalists. My patience is wearing thin for those interested only in selfish gain as it relates to snakes. More and more the entire herp market and captive hobby seems to be so superficial and anti-nature. Man-made marketability and commercialization seems to be becoming a major detriment to these animals and their integrity in the wild. So yes, I am concerned for the integrity of this hobby as it has been. But I am finding less and less folks involved who seem to value where it all comes from. Like the individual who posted lately b!tching about having to learn scientific names for the snakes he supposedly "loves". He doesn't even own a field guide, and knows snakes only by common names used in herp ads. This seems a bit disgusting to me, and maybe the naturalist hobby is too old-fashioned and becoming extinct. If this is the case, I am perfectly happy becoming a lost relic right along with it. But until either of these events take place, I will probably remain somewhat unaccepting of shallow disregard within the hobby, and the exploitation of beautiful animals. : Captive snakes are fine. They are dead to nature anyway. But when the ignorance becomes so blatant, it is very unattractive to me. Yes, I do have a chip on my shoulder about that. : If you love the snakes, you aren't going to collect them in numbers to sell to people you don't even know. If you love the snakes, you are going to learn everything there is to know about them, and apply appropriate effort in reading real books about them, and even learn scientific names. If you love the snakes, you probably won't choose to have them made into venomoids. Even if you do, you will spoil the hell out of them, and give the the species-specific care they deserve, based on what you know about that species. : All of the above considered, I still firmly stand by my comments as of late: If someone is a total idiot, and this is obvious, they have no business owning ANY live animal. They will hear my opinion about it on this forum. : Take care man. Thanks for the discussion. : Jaffo

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