another spiloides pic, ;)

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Posted by dg on January 13, 2001 at 23:14:45:

In Reply to: Re: leucistic spiloides posted by Patrick Alexander on January 13, 2001 at 21:55:50:

:Ah, but I wasn't saying that the non-bug-eyed-ness established non-Texas-rat-ness. But it does make it more likely, compared to finding a snake in the wild that looks more like the `typical' leucistic Texas rat.

But you did say "It was noticably different from a leucistic Texas rat," which is something that I have to disagree with. The snake you are referring to, the supposed leucistic grey rat, was on display this past summer (July?) at the Dixie Reptile show in Birmingham, Alabama. I saw this specimen first hand at very close range, it was in a small aquarium with a wild caught Alabama grey. I stood there staring for the longest time (I am an obsoleta nut, by the way) trying to figure out what was so special about this 'normal' looking animal that was on display with a leucistic. Then someone had the decency to drop me a clue: I was looking at a bona fide leucistic grey rat! I don't recall my exact comments, but I probably laughed my way to the next table. Even if it was a true spiloides, there is no way to tell it from a leucistic TX rat, short of outcrossing with normals and seeing what the offspring look like. I am not attempting to discredit the owner of this animal. He (or she) may have actually caught it in the wild, or however the story goes. I am only suggesting that this doesnt prove without a doubt that it is pure spiloides and not an escaped pet. If the owner of the leucistic spiloides can sell them as such, then more power to em.

:But, then, there's a large difference between finding a snake in New York City, and finding one out in the countryside in, say, Virginia. If it wasn't caught near a city, I'd say it probably wasn't an escapee,

Well not necessarily, but I will agree for arguments sake. I see your point, the odds of finding a non native animal (or morph) would be greater in the urban confines of a city versus out in "the sticks." But it wouldn't be impossible... (think of all the "multi het" corn snake releases in the Okeetee area of SC since the mid 70's)

:especially given that Texas rats aren't particularly popular as pets, and thus seem less likely to be found as escapees.

Huh?? I would think that the leucistic TX rat is hands down THE most popular obsoleta ssp/morph ever! They have been in demand since Bechtel hatched the first clutch of them in captivity in 1981. If there is any morph that is likely to be an escapee, its a leucistic, the most commonly bred morph of e. obsoleta subspecies.

: Well, most of my criteria in this case is that, from what I've seen, Mr. Korell seems to know what he's talking about.

I checked out Mr. Korell's page at the following link, http://www.ratsnakes.com/Eobsoleta.html

Personally, I don't know Mr. Korell and can't vouch for his knowledge of e. obsoleta. But I have read his posts/replies on asian/european rats on this forum and will agree that he is most definitely "in the know" when it comes to these animals.

:Don't worry, I wasn't claiming to have `proof' anyways. :)

Hehe, me neither. It's been a great discussion though. :-p

Take care,
dg

Follow Ups:

Sneaky bugger... Patrick Alexander 01/14/01 (8)
- laws, albino black rats, etc. dg 01/14/01 (7)
  - Re: albino black rats, etc. JY 01/14/01 (3)
    - too bad you don't ship.... LOL - np dg 01/14/01 (2)
      - Re: too bad you don't ship.... LOL - np JY. 01/14/01 (1)
        
        been there, etc.. dg 01/15/01 (0)
  - Re: laws, albino black rats, etc. Patrick Alexander 01/14/01 (2)
    - Re: laws dg 01/14/01 (1)
      - Re: laws Patrick Alexander 01/14/01 (0)

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: :Ah, but I wasn't saying that the non-bug-eyed-ness established non-Texas-rat-ness. But it does make it more likely, compared to finding a snake in the wild that looks more like the `typical' leucistic Texas rat. : But you did say "It was noticably different from a leucistic Texas rat," which is something that I have to disagree with. The snake you are referring to, the supposed leucistic grey rat, was on display this past summer (July?) at the Dixie Reptile show in Birmingham, Alabama. I saw this specimen first hand at very close range, it was in a small aquarium with a wild caught Alabama grey. I stood there staring for the longest time (I am an obsoleta nut, by the way) trying to figure out what was so special about this 'normal' looking animal that was on display with a leucistic. Then someone had the decency to drop me a clue: I was looking at a bona fide leucistic grey rat! I don't recall my exact comments, but I probably laughed my way to the next table. Even if it was a true spiloides, there is no way to tell it from a leucistic TX rat, short of outcrossing with normals and seeing what the offspring look like. I am not attempting to discredit the owner of this animal. He (or she) may have actually caught it in the wild, or however the story goes. I am only suggesting that this doesnt prove without a doubt that it is pure spiloides and not an escaped pet. If the owner of the leucistic spiloides can sell them as such, then more power to em. : :But, then, there's a large difference between finding a snake in New York City, and finding one out in the countryside in, say, Virginia. If it wasn't caught near a city, I'd say it probably wasn't an escapee, : Well not necessarily, but I will agree for arguments sake. I see your point, the odds of finding a non native animal (or morph) would be greater in the urban confines of a city versus out in "the sticks." But it wouldn't be impossible... (think of all the "multi het" corn snake releases in the Okeetee area of SC since the mid 70's) : :especially given that Texas rats aren't particularly popular as pets, and thus seem less likely to be found as escapees. : Huh?? I would think that the leucistic TX rat is hands down THE most popular obsoleta ssp/morph ever! They have been in demand since Bechtel hatched the first clutch of them in captivity in 1981. If there is any morph that is likely to be an escapee, its a leucistic, the most commonly bred morph of e. obsoleta subspecies. : : Well, most of my criteria in this case is that, from what I've seen, Mr. Korell seems to know what he's talking about. : : I checked out Mr. Korell's page at the following link, http://www.ratsnakes.com/Eobsoleta.html : Personally, I don't know Mr. Korell and can't vouch for his knowledge of e. obsoleta. But I have read his posts/replies on asian/european rats on this forum and will agree that he is most definitely "in the know" when it comes to these animals. : :Don't worry, I wasn't claiming to have `proof' anyways. :) : Hehe, me neither. It's been a great discussion though. :-p : Take care, : dg

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