Re: Please allow me to clarify a few things.....long

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Posted by Crystal on March 09, 2002 at 23:18:13:

In Reply to: Please allow me to clarify a few things.....long posted by Ig Chick on March 09, 2002 at 22:37:59:

I am not asking for a "pat on the back" I was simply asking for help...and as a matter of fact, if you go back and read every post, you will notice that the only thing I have done wrong was on my application. I have gone back and corrected these things, but still people came and said I am unqualified. I have worked with iguanas before, along with other reptiles. Where are you all getting these accusations from? I havent done a THING wrong. My application was incorrect on a few points, THATS IT! Other than that, there has been nothing stated that shows I am unqualified. I just dont understand where I have gone wrong. I am getting the finger pointed at me for no apparent reason but my application....where is that coming from? Has someone been told that I am abusing animals, or that I am 10yrs old and live with my mommy and daddy? No...these are all false. I am not starting a RESCUE...I am starting an adoption. I decide which animals come into my house, which ones I accept are my decision.
You all keep pointing out that animals will be dumped off on me whether I like it or not, that is untrue...I am only accepting what I chose, or what is absolutely necessary. If I feel I cant care for that animal properly, I will direct that person to a rescue.
Other than that, I have not showed any signs of unqualifications, I know what this means, I know the tasks I face, and I know how to deal with them.
Yes, I have taken my animals to a vet...but my vet has retired recently. So I am finding another.
So please, point out where I am making my mistakes, I am clueless to where I have made any.
Thanx
Crystal

: First, I think I should have probably pointed out, especially because some do not know us and others have been away for awhile, that Mr. D and I are no longer doing "iguana rescue" on a limited basis from our home. Somewhere between the 5 we set our limit at (LOL as people like Samcin, Jiff and Travis can appreciate that little laugh more than others) and today, Mr. D and I decided to take the "rescue" work we were doing to a higher level. It came after the realization that our private bank accounts had significantly shrunk, the square footage in our home had significantly shrunk, that we were the only folks really taking in iguanas in our area and the fact we found that we had zero free time left to pursue any of our other interests. We have gone from a private couple that took in, with no charge attached, any ig in need, made it healthy and then gave them away at no charge, to Broken Reptile Rescue & Education, Inc. complete with a Board of Directors, Officers, volunteers, members, etc. and the plans to open an actual fully functioning facility. It is our plan to be to reptiles what the local SPCA, Humane, rescue/shelter is to dogs and cats.

: In our desire to provide loving and appropriate homes for iguanas (and now other reptiles, amphibians and most recently arachnids) in need, we learned a thing or two along the way. I apparently mininterpreted Crystal asking for help as a question and not a plea for someone to pat her on the back and tell her that she is wonderful and doing everything correctly.I only wish that we had the knowledge we have now back when we first started ... it would have saved many headaches along the way. In fact, it wasn't until several months ago that it was pointed out to us by a State Cruelty Investigator that we needed a liscense, we had even been told by DOA that we didn't need one. If someone had put in a complaint with the ACI or an ACO (Animal Controll Officer), we could have gotten into a ton of legal trouble.

: 1.) Many states require you to have a permit to own an iguana/reptile (like Maine) as well as requiring any "rescue" to have one. These liscenses/permits are usually obtained via the Department of Agriculture or Fish and Game/Wildlife.

: 2.) What legally constitutes "rescue"? It will vary from state to state. In my state any person/entity that adopts out animals with or without a fee more than 1x per year is considered a "rescue" and must have a liscense.

: 3.) Cruely laws are very similar from state to state -Cruelty laws apply to everyone that has an animal, whether it be a private individual, pet store or "rescue". In many states, including ours, denying medical attention to an animal in need is cruelty. A bonafide rescue vs. being an individual who "rescues" are both subject to the same laws and penalties. Not having the money for medical care, food, etc. IS NOT an excepted excuse by the law. Ignorance of the laws IS NOT an excepted excuse by the law.

: -As a side note I would like to interject here .... As a person who works in animal rescue (and note that I said animal and not reptile), if I come across someone committing the act of animal cruelty as defined in the state laws, it is my moral duty as well as my civic responcibility to make a complaint to the ACI in my district. If I were to find a rescue that chose, for whatever reason, to not get medical attention for an animal in need, I would first give them the opportunity to get that medical care and if not I would report them to the ACI -no questions asked.

: Crystal, at the risk of setting you off on another tangent, you are not setting yourself up to be a "foster home", your website is setting you up to be a "rescue". You are planning on charging fees for your services and that makes you a "rescue". If you were working under another, liscensed entity, that would make you a foster home. Travis posed an EXCELLENT question to you -While you have set your personal limit at 5 iguanas, what are you going to do when people literally drop them on your doorstep? What are you going to do when someone drops a 10 foot Burmese Python or a 5 foot American Alligator off? Don't think it can't or won't happen? Think again! It happens every day and you'd better be prepared for it. You should also consider the following -if you are attempting to do rescue it is because it is in your heart to do so -what are you going to do when you have 5 and #s 6,7,8,9,10,11 and 12 come to your attention? Are you going to be able to turn them away? Ask Samcin, Travis and Jiff how hard it is to say "no" ... We are all only trying to prepare you for the harsh reality you are about to find. Personally, I wish someone had been there to be open and honest with us when we first started.

: I've read everyone's posts and opions on fees and I would just like to say this. While I think it is awesome and completely admirable that some folks would never dream of charging a fee and that those same folks have the financial ability to continue to do so, there is no shame in a "rescue" not being able to do the same. Only when we, as "reptile people", stop looking at these animals as reptiles and start looking at them as animals are we going to get the public at large to start thinking the same way. Established shelters, SPCAs and Humane Socieites all charge fees for services they provide for mammals, it should be no different for any other rescue regardless of feather, fur or scales.

: As for people who will refuse our services for surrender because we charge a fee ... We have yet to have anyone refuse to pay the fee. When someone has voiced an objection, we give them the number to their nearest SPCA or Humane and tell them they are welcome to call them. If people choose to dump animals, in all honesty, while it pains us to no end, there is nothing we can do. I once had woman say "Well, I could just as easily release it into the wild." My reply to her was "That is against the law and if you were to call your local ACI or ACO they would tell you the same." She decided that she was better off paying the fee. We are never going to be able to save all of them but if we do not charge a fee we simply could not afford to be in exsistance. Just recently we worked a cruelty case with the local police and ended up with 60 or so animals (reptiles, amphibians and arachnids) coming in on the same night -the Police found a loop hole and got out of paying for our services. Because of that Mr. D and I have had to pay for a good portion of the rescue operation out of our own pocket. If it hadn't been for the handfull of wonderful donations we have gotten in, we'd be sunk.

: Almost every time I open the forum here on my browser here I have to give a sad little chuckle. People throwing a hissy because they don't like the supposed "tone" of another's post .... Let me get on record now ... by the time many of us have answered the same question for what feels like the millionth time, seen the same troll people over and over, read the temper tantrum posts when someone doesn't like the answer they were given, it gets old. If you're going to say "why post at all then", save your breath because the minute those of us with the real info stop posting, someone will throw a hissy that no one here answers questions. If you come here to this forum and ask a question, people are going to answer that question based on their knowledge and more likely than not some private opinion thrown in -such is the nature of Interent Forums like this.
: It would be nice, if just once, for those of us who share the answers,we got a "thank you" for the time and attention we put in to answering someone's questions, instead of a temper tantrum and 1/2 page of replies to that tantrum when the person, for whatever reason, did not like the answer.

: As for me, I have already wasted far too much time on this tonight when I could have be all snuggled up with my husband watching a bad movie and eatting some popcorn.

Follow Ups:

one last time Ig Chick 03/10/02 (3)
- I AM LISTENING!!!! Crystal 03/10/02 (1)
  - Re: I AM LISTENING!!!! Sklavin 03/10/02 (0)
- Well said I hope she reads carefully this time nm Christy 03/10/02 (0)

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: : I am not asking for a "pat on the back" I was simply asking for help...and as a matter of fact, if you go back and read every post, you will notice that the only thing I have done wrong was on my application. I have gone back and corrected these things, but still people came and said I am unqualified. I have worked with iguanas before, along with other reptiles. Where are you all getting these accusations from? I havent done a THING wrong. My application was incorrect on a few points, THATS IT! Other than that, there has been nothing stated that shows I am unqualified. I just dont understand where I have gone wrong. I am getting the finger pointed at me for no apparent reason but my application....where is that coming from? Has someone been told that I am abusing animals, or that I am 10yrs old and live with my mommy and daddy? No...these are all false. I am not starting a RESCUE...I am starting an adoption. I decide which animals come into my house, which ones I accept are my decision. : You all keep pointing out that animals will be dumped off on me whether I like it or not, that is untrue...I am only accepting what I chose, or what is absolutely necessary. If I feel I cant care for that animal properly, I will direct that person to a rescue. : Other than that, I have not showed any signs of unqualifications, I know what this means, I know the tasks I face, and I know how to deal with them. : Yes, I have taken my animals to a vet...but my vet has retired recently. So I am finding another. : So please, point out where I am making my mistakes, I am clueless to where I have made any. : Thanx : Crystal : : First, I think I should have probably pointed out, especially because some do not know us and others have been away for awhile, that Mr. D and I are no longer doing "iguana rescue" on a limited basis from our home. Somewhere between the 5 we set our limit at (LOL as people like Samcin, Jiff and Travis can appreciate that little laugh more than others) and today, Mr. D and I decided to take the "rescue" work we were doing to a higher level. It came after the realization that our private bank accounts had significantly shrunk, the square footage in our home had significantly shrunk, that we were the only folks really taking in iguanas in our area and the fact we found that we had zero free time left to pursue any of our other interests. We have gone from a private couple that took in, with no charge attached, any ig in need, made it healthy and then gave them away at no charge, to Broken Reptile Rescue & Education, Inc. complete with a Board of Directors, Officers, volunteers, members, etc. and the plans to open an actual fully functioning facility. It is our plan to be to reptiles what the local SPCA, Humane, rescue/shelter is to dogs and cats. : : In our desire to provide loving and appropriate homes for iguanas (and now other reptiles, amphibians and most recently arachnids) in need, we learned a thing or two along the way. I apparently mininterpreted Crystal asking for help as a question and not a plea for someone to pat her on the back and tell her that she is wonderful and doing everything correctly.I only wish that we had the knowledge we have now back when we first started ... it would have saved many headaches along the way. In fact, it wasn't until several months ago that it was pointed out to us by a State Cruelty Investigator that we needed a liscense, we had even been told by DOA that we didn't need one. If someone had put in a complaint with the ACI or an ACO (Animal Controll Officer), we could have gotten into a ton of legal trouble. : : 1.) Many states require you to have a permit to own an iguana/reptile (like Maine) as well as requiring any "rescue" to have one. These liscenses/permits are usually obtained via the Department of Agriculture or Fish and Game/Wildlife. : : 2.) What legally constitutes "rescue"? It will vary from state to state. In my state any person/entity that adopts out animals with or without a fee more than 1x per year is considered a "rescue" and must have a liscense. : : 3.) Cruely laws are very similar from state to state -Cruelty laws apply to everyone that has an animal, whether it be a private individual, pet store or "rescue". In many states, including ours, denying medical attention to an animal in need is cruelty. A bonafide rescue vs. being an individual who "rescues" are both subject to the same laws and penalties. Not having the money for medical care, food, etc. IS NOT an excepted excuse by the law. Ignorance of the laws IS NOT an excepted excuse by the law. : : -As a side note I would like to interject here .... As a person who works in animal rescue (and note that I said animal and not reptile), if I come across someone committing the act of animal cruelty as defined in the state laws, it is my moral duty as well as my civic responcibility to make a complaint to the ACI in my district. If I were to find a rescue that chose, for whatever reason, to not get medical attention for an animal in need, I would first give them the opportunity to get that medical care and if not I would report them to the ACI -no questions asked. : : Crystal, at the risk of setting you off on another tangent, you are not setting yourself up to be a "foster home", your website is setting you up to be a "rescue". You are planning on charging fees for your services and that makes you a "rescue". If you were working under another, liscensed entity, that would make you a foster home. Travis posed an EXCELLENT question to you -While you have set your personal limit at 5 iguanas, what are you going to do when people literally drop them on your doorstep? What are you going to do when someone drops a 10 foot Burmese Python or a 5 foot American Alligator off? Don't think it can't or won't happen? Think again! It happens every day and you'd better be prepared for it. You should also consider the following -if you are attempting to do rescue it is because it is in your heart to do so -what are you going to do when you have 5 and #s 6,7,8,9,10,11 and 12 come to your attention? Are you going to be able to turn them away? Ask Samcin, Travis and Jiff how hard it is to say "no" ... We are all only trying to prepare you for the harsh reality you are about to find. Personally, I wish someone had been there to be open and honest with us when we first started. : : I've read everyone's posts and opions on fees and I would just like to say this. While I think it is awesome and completely admirable that some folks would never dream of charging a fee and that those same folks have the financial ability to continue to do so, there is no shame in a "rescue" not being able to do the same. Only when we, as "reptile people", stop looking at these animals as reptiles and start looking at them as animals are we going to get the public at large to start thinking the same way. Established shelters, SPCAs and Humane Socieites all charge fees for services they provide for mammals, it should be no different for any other rescue regardless of feather, fur or scales. : : As for people who will refuse our services for surrender because we charge a fee ... We have yet to have anyone refuse to pay the fee. When someone has voiced an objection, we give them the number to their nearest SPCA or Humane and tell them they are welcome to call them. If people choose to dump animals, in all honesty, while it pains us to no end, there is nothing we can do. I once had woman say "Well, I could just as easily release it into the wild." My reply to her was "That is against the law and if you were to call your local ACI or ACO they would tell you the same." She decided that she was better off paying the fee. We are never going to be able to save all of them but if we do not charge a fee we simply could not afford to be in exsistance. Just recently we worked a cruelty case with the local police and ended up with 60 or so animals (reptiles, amphibians and arachnids) coming in on the same night -the Police found a loop hole and got out of paying for our services. Because of that Mr. D and I have had to pay for a good portion of the rescue operation out of our own pocket. If it hadn't been for the handfull of wonderful donations we have gotten in, we'd be sunk. : : Almost every time I open the forum here on my browser here I have to give a sad little chuckle. People throwing a hissy because they don't like the supposed "tone" of another's post .... Let me get on record now ... by the time many of us have answered the same question for what feels like the millionth time, seen the same troll people over and over, read the temper tantrum posts when someone doesn't like the answer they were given, it gets old. If you're going to say "why post at all then", save your breath because the minute those of us with the real info stop posting, someone will throw a hissy that no one here answers questions. If you come here to this forum and ask a question, people are going to answer that question based on their knowledge and more likely than not some private opinion thrown in -such is the nature of Interent Forums like this. : : It would be nice, if just once, for those of us who share the answers,we got a "thank you" for the time and attention we put in to answering someone's questions, instead of a temper tantrum and 1/2 page of replies to that tantrum when the person, for whatever reason, did not like the answer. : : As for me, I have already wasted far too much time on this tonight when I could have be all snuggled up with my husband watching a bad movie and eatting some popcorn.

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