Sorry...I did miss this Lexi....

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Posted by Mr. D on January 28, 2002 at 23:06:49:

In Reply to: For Mr D (and anyone else that knows about the USDA's APHIS) posted by Lexi on January 28, 2002 at 19:23:19:

What we're finding is that SOMEwhere on a state level, just about ANY animal is covered under one set of rules or another. This is why I recommend contacting both state vets and state offices of USDA. One thing to bear in mind is that state vet, USDA, Fish and Game and any other offices may not play nice with each other, hence the necessity of contacting EVERYONE possible.

What we are finding that works the best, so far, is state level animal cruelty laws. RSA's, AWA, and other "governing" regulations seem to be more and more outdated as we look into them. If I had a nickel for every time I saw "dog or cat" specifically stated we wouldn't have to be wading through all of this 501(c) carp.

However, we see a fair amount of latitude in the wording of the cruelty laws. There is very little in them that is "species specific" which, in turn, may lend itself to broad interpretations. By applying our AC statutes, I could easily walk into just about ANY PetCompany in the state with an animal cruelty investigator and have multiple citations written for the iguana enclosures alone...;)~

It's basically all about who has the best set of rules and who is willing to play ball with you. In some cases, a phone call to D.C. may be necessary in order to deal with things on federal levels. The more you delve into the inner workings of this wonderful machine called our government the more you have to pay attention to details and understand that different issues are addressed on different levels. Some federal, some state, some local.

I'd have to go back and look, but on the surface, I believe that you are correct in that the USDA usually licenses "exotic" shops mainly for mammals. HOWever, I don't believe that the license itself actually distinguishes between mammals, reptiles, etc. I could be mistaken, but I believe that if a shop has an "exotic" license regardless of the purpose, it must play by ALL of the exotic rules and regulations. It's right about here that you have to start closely examing the CITES regulations as well. You also have to look at state definitions of "dangerous","venomous", "indigenous", and "imported" wildlife.

Honestly, it's been a few months since I've had to look at everything so things are a bit muddled right now. Midnight usually isn't whenI do my clearest thinking....;)If anyone knows anything more concrete feel free to flag me. I'm going to have to start looking at all of these regs in the next week or so anyway. I just received a phone call from a federal fish & wildlife special agent over the weekend and I'm going to have to bone up on rules and regs quickly. Thanks for reminding me, Lexi...;)~

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cruelty statues resource Ig Chick 01/29/02 (0)

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: What we're finding is that SOMEwhere on a state level, just about ANY animal is covered under one set of rules or another. This is why I recommend contacting both state vets and state offices of USDA. One thing to bear in mind is that state vet, USDA, Fish and Game and any other offices may not play nice with each other, hence the necessity of contacting EVERYONE possible. : What we are finding that works the best, so far, is state level animal cruelty laws. RSA's, AWA, and other "governing" regulations seem to be more and more outdated as we look into them. If I had a nickel for every time I saw "dog or cat" specifically stated we wouldn't have to be wading through all of this 501(c) carp. : However, we see a fair amount of latitude in the wording of the cruelty laws. There is very little in them that is "species specific" which, in turn, may lend itself to broad interpretations. By applying our AC statutes, I could easily walk into just about ANY PetCompany in the state with an animal cruelty investigator and have multiple citations written for the iguana enclosures alone...;)~ : It's basically all about who has the best set of rules and who is willing to play ball with you. In some cases, a phone call to D.C. may be necessary in order to deal with things on federal levels. The more you delve into the inner workings of this wonderful machine called our government the more you have to pay attention to details and understand that different issues are addressed on different levels. Some federal, some state, some local. : I'd have to go back and look, but on the surface, I believe that you are correct in that the USDA usually licenses "exotic" shops mainly for mammals. HOWever, I don't believe that the license itself actually distinguishes between mammals, reptiles, etc. I could be mistaken, but I believe that if a shop has an "exotic" license regardless of the purpose, it must play by ALL of the exotic rules and regulations. It's right about here that you have to start closely examing the CITES regulations as well. You also have to look at state definitions of "dangerous","venomous", "indigenous", and "imported" wildlife. : Honestly, it's been a few months since I've had to look at everything so things are a bit muddled right now. Midnight usually isn't whenI do my clearest thinking....;)If anyone knows anything more concrete feel free to flag me. I'm going to have to start looking at all of these regs in the next week or so anyway. I just received a phone call from a federal fish & wildlife special agent over the weekend and I'm going to have to bone up on rules and regs quickly. Thanks for reminding me, Lexi...;)~

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