Maybe I'm just odd, but....

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Posted by oldherper on April 22, 2003 at 13:51:08:

In Reply to: Okay, but.... posted by GyrFalcon on April 22, 2003 at 12:55:32:

Both of the examples you list are, in fact, inter-species hybrids. I don't agree with doing that. I can't really say exactly why, it's just one of those things that doesn't feel right to me. It's like we are trying to create a new species for our own pleasure, which of course can't be done. There is no place in nature (no natural niche) for these animals...they are still just a combination of the two species that were crossed, no matter what we do. I realize that we have been using hybrids for hundreds of years...mules for example. Somehow that doesn't seem so bad to me. I dunno...I can't realy explain WHY I'm against it, I just know it doesn't feel right to me.

: Are you of the opinion that ONLY hybridizing snakes is bad? I gave an example of birds being hybridized... When a blue and gold macaw and a scarlet macaw are crossed, you get the catalina macaw... is this bad too, or is it okay because it isn't snakes. Or falconers have been know to hybridize raptors such as gyrfalcon/peregrine falcons, or ferruginous hawks/Harris' Hawks. Again, are you only against hybridizing snakes, or all animals? I'm just curious now.

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::We're talking about snakes here, not plants and birds. Plants reproduce by an entirely different method anyway. They have litle or no control over where the pollen is delivered by whatever vector is used, so closely related species could easily hybridize. I've taken all the same biology courses...just a long time ago. Show me some (valid)reference to snakes routinely hybridizing in the wild between species and between genera......

:::I was reading in my biology text book and here is what it had to say on hybridization:
:::"...one study found that more that 50% of the plant species surveyed in california were not well defined by genetic isolation. for example, fossil records indicate that balsam poplars and cottonwoods have been phenotypically distinct for 12 million years, but throughout time they have routinely produced hybrids..." (Raven/Johnson, 474)
:::Biology, Sixth Edition, Raven/Johnson copyright 2002, 1999, 1996 by mcgraw-hill companies

:::I know that talks about plants, but the book also indicates that 10% of the worlds 9500 species of birds have been known to hybridize in nature. Galapagos finches hybridize as well. It says that 2% of medium ground finches, and 1% of cactus finches mated with other species every year. (Raven/Johnson, 475)

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::::I'm not speaking for Paul here...he's more than capable of doing that himself. (I assume you were asking Paul that question).

::::I did want to say one thing about your question, though. I don't know of any hybrids that occur naturally in the wild. Remember, when we say hybrid, we're speaking of true hybrids, which would be cross-species or cross genus, such a "Sinacorns" (L.t.sinaloae x E.g.guttata) or "Jurassic Milksnakes" (L.t.ssp x god-knows-what). These types of crosses do not occur in the wild as far as I know. These are always "man-made" crosses.

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:::::Are you giving a thumbs down on hybrids in general? Including hybrids that occur naturally in the wild? Or just hybrids that are produced by man?

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Follow Ups:

Maybe I'm just odd, but.... snakeguy88 04/22/03 (2)
- Maybe I'm just odd, but.... oldherper 04/23/03 (1)
  - Maybe I'm just odd, but.... Paul Hollander 04/23/03 (0)