kingsnake.com - reptile and amphibian classifieds, breeders, forums, photos, videos and more

return to main index

  mobile - desktop
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter follow us on YouTube link to us on LinkedIn
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research  
click here for Rodent Pro
This Space Available
3 months for $50.00
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: Herp Photo of the Day: Milk Snake . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day: Frog . . . . . . . . . .  Southwestern Herp Society Meeting - July 05, 2025 . . . . . . . . . .  St. Louis Herpetological Society - July 13, 2025 . . . . . . . . . .  San Diego Herp Society Meeting - July 15, 2025 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - July 19, 2025 . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - July 20, 2025 . . . . . . . . . .  Bay Area Herpetological Society Meeting - July 25, 2025 . . . . . . . . . .  Suncoast Herp Society Meeting - July 26, 2025 . . . . . . . . . .  DFW Herp Society Meeting - July 26, 2025 . . . . . . . . . .  Tucson Herpetological Society Meeting - July 28, 2025 . . . . . . . . . .  Southwestern Herp Society Meeting - Aug 02, 2025 . . . . . . . . . . 

Assumptions, definitions and generalizations


[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Taxonomy Forum ]

Posted by emoneill on December 09, 2002 at 20:16:06:

In Reply to: The workers are well qualified... posted by Kenny Wray on December 09, 2002 at 18:52:15:

:As for the subspecies being outdated. You are listening to a select few

On the contrary mi amigo I "listen to" (actually I mainly read) all the sides to the species concept debate from Mayr to Frost and back again. Your assumption that I am not listening to the other side is completely false. Actually I have rejected subspecies because I read the literature on all sides, not because my reading habits are one sided.

On another note, what do you mean by distinct?

You wrote:
a. If you refuse to think that peninsular Florida Ratsnake's are not distinct from all other rat snakes with vey small integrade zones, well you are wrong.

b. As far as a distinct evolutionary lineage, none of the obsoleta are isolated and all exchange gene flow from north to south and east to west.

You are saying in (a) that they are distinct but in (b) that they are not. You obviously mean distinct in two different ways in these, can you explain?

:The problem with today's taxonomists/systematists is that an entire generation is being taught procedures that they do not fully comprehend.

I am part of that generation and I do make a considerable effort to understand the methods I use as well as is possible as do many people I know. So your generalization "an entire generation" is simply not true.

Your complaint is legitimate though, where it applies. It is relatively easy to analyze data these days with unversal mtDNA primers and programs like PAUP, anyone can do it. But I am not saying this is the case with Burbrink's work.

Another thing to take into account is that many people on this forum don't know the first thing about molecular data, species concepts, or philosophy of science. These are all important to the issue at hand.

Cheers




Follow Ups:




[ Follow Ups ] [ The Taxonomy Forum ]