Hi John and Terry....

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Posted by Terry Cox on March 27, 2002 at 10:01:11:

In Reply to: this is all very helpful and is this covered in any books? .... posted by johnc on March 26, 2002 at 10:48:06:

I believe all the talk about the Kisatchies (as well as the E. Texas corns) is speculation and don't know of anything in the literature about the Kisatchies. I know Vaughan ('96) said the E. TX corns were E. g. guttata, and I suspect the Kisatchies are too, but there needs to be some scientific work done on these..maybe some molecular work.

I think it's interesting, Terry, that the Kisatchies may be the result of intergrading in the past between emoryi and guttata, but I doubt there's any intergrading going on at present. My understanding is it's very questionable whether any emoryi live in LA at all. It's also possible that the Kisatchie could be pure guttata.

At this time I'd like to know if emoryi crosses with guttata anywhere in nature. If not, I'm going to side with those who advocate for E. emoryi, and treat them as a separate species. If they intergrade when they come in contact in nature, then it would be difficult to call them anything other than subspecies, IMHO. Hope I'm not disturbing you too much with my evolving understanding of this interesting and difficult taxonomic situation.

Hope you hang in there with your work with the Kisatchies and help provide us with info that might help resolve this issue. If I had time and space I might breed the Kisatchies too to find out what they produce. Unfortunately, I have too many already, and I'll have my hands full with the "intermontana" and Brazos Island corns.

PS:) AZ is nice and I'm having fun. Will go out looking for emerging rattlers today in the Valley of the Sun. Take care. Later, TC.

Follow Ups:

Thanks again for your comments . . . .> Terry Parks 03/27/02 (2)
- Hi, Terry. Sorry it took so long....> Terry Cox 03/29/02 (0)
- Read above regarding New subspecies name. n/p robc 03/28/02 (0)

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: I believe all the talk about the Kisatchies (as well as the E. Texas corns) is speculation and don't know of anything in the literature about the Kisatchies. I know Vaughan ('96) said the E. TX corns were E. g. guttata, and I suspect the Kisatchies are too, but there needs to be some scientific work done on these..maybe some molecular work. : I think it's interesting, Terry, that the Kisatchies may be the result of intergrading in the past between emoryi and guttata, but I doubt there's any intergrading going on at present. My understanding is it's very questionable whether any emoryi live in LA at all. It's also possible that the Kisatchie could be pure guttata. : At this time I'd like to know if emoryi crosses with guttata anywhere in nature. If not, I'm going to side with those who advocate for E. emoryi, and treat them as a separate species. If they intergrade when they come in contact in nature, then it would be difficult to call them anything other than subspecies, IMHO. Hope I'm not disturbing you too much with my evolving understanding of this interesting and difficult taxonomic situation. : Hope you hang in there with your work with the Kisatchies and help provide us with info that might help resolve this issue. If I had time and space I might breed the Kisatchies too to find out what they produce. Unfortunately, I have too many already, and I'll have my hands full with the "intermontana" and Brazos Island corns. : PS:) AZ is nice and I'm having fun. Will go out looking for emerging rattlers today in the Valley of the Sun. Take care. Later, TC.

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