Read above regarding New subspecies name. n/p

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Posted by robc on March 28, 2002 at 13:21:12:

In Reply to: Thanks again for your comments . . . .> posted by Terry Parks on March 27, 2002 at 14:52:07:

: and additional input Terry. First of all, i'm glad to hear your enjoying AZ. I'm envious about your chance of seeing a rattler.

: Your going to keep jumping in on my kisatchie posts until you make me spill my guts aren't you my friend?

: O.K. Here it goes. My thoughts. The kisatchie corn is the product of two gene pools at least. I think its parental genes from the west and parental genes from the east. The area where kisatchies now exist was once occupied by snakes having only genes from the west, snakes having only genes from the east and snakes that had combinations of both genes through cross breeding (integrates can be used and I'll say why later). For some reason, something changed in this area and the snakes having only west or east genes (not combinations did not survive or they migrated in the direction of the genes they had until they came back to an area that was like the original area they exist. The snakes that had the combination of genes survived in some of the parishes in the Kisatchie National Forest in Louisiana. Without any of the original gene pools existing in this area and no cross breeding (integration) going one, all hatchlings were products of parents with the combination of genes. Over time, these hatchlings lost traits of the original parental stock and what we see now is a pure kisatchie bloodline with traits, etc of its own genes.

: O.K. my thoughts on the ongoing corn x corn or corn x emoryi integration sides and which way you accept the emoryi taxonomy. I said in my earlier post that it wasn't important to me with regards to kistachies being crosses of corn or emoryis and if emory is ssp or its own species. I live and possess kisatchies in California where there are no laws or regulation restrcting me possessing them, breeding them, and selling them. Some of the original collectors of kisatchies and those who possess them reside in states where a corn snake has several laws and regulations restrcting breeding and selling them; even making it necessary to have a permit to possess one. It is very important to these people whether we say kisatchies are integrades of corn to corns or corns to emoryis and how emoryi's taxonomy is accepted. When emoryi maintains it longtime species status and we say kisatchies are corn/emoryi integrades then kisachies are a rat snake integrade and the corn laws and regulation do not restrict them. There is no integration going on in the area where kisatchies exist. Kisatrchies are breeding with kisatchies. Kisatchies are not integrades from my view in California. I will call them integrades and accept people calling them integrades because i helps and benefits those original collectors of the current breeding stock we get offspring from.

: It's inevitable that the genes that kisatchies have be identified as to the original parental stock and that we accept or continue to support emoryi's status as ssp of guttatta or its own species.

: Now here's some info I recently heard that will add to the pot. I don't think he was saying it off the record. Someone was talking to Steve Reichling at the Memphis Zoo over the weekend. Steve writing the study and works along with support of alot of people on the Louisiana Pine giving Ruthveni its own species status and was suported and reaffirmed in the Robles- Escoba work. Steve has alot of data on kisatchies that I would love to see and get copies on. Well, I just recently heard word that a scientist has recognized kisatchies as a separate species and not a ssp or integrade. It has a scientific name, but I don't have it yet.

: Well, that's my California views from someone who has and has become addicted to these very unique snakes.

: Comments are always welcomed.

: Terry

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: : and additional input Terry. First of all, i'm glad to hear your enjoying AZ. I'm envious about your chance of seeing a rattler. : : Your going to keep jumping in on my kisatchie posts until you make me spill my guts aren't you my friend? : : O.K. Here it goes. My thoughts. The kisatchie corn is the product of two gene pools at least. I think its parental genes from the west and parental genes from the east. The area where kisatchies now exist was once occupied by snakes having only genes from the west, snakes having only genes from the east and snakes that had combinations of both genes through cross breeding (integrates can be used and I'll say why later). For some reason, something changed in this area and the snakes having only west or east genes (not combinations did not survive or they migrated in the direction of the genes they had until they came back to an area that was like the original area they exist. The snakes that had the combination of genes survived in some of the parishes in the Kisatchie National Forest in Louisiana. Without any of the original gene pools existing in this area and no cross breeding (integration) going one, all hatchlings were products of parents with the combination of genes. Over time, these hatchlings lost traits of the original parental stock and what we see now is a pure kisatchie bloodline with traits, etc of its own genes. : : O.K. my thoughts on the ongoing corn x corn or corn x emoryi integration sides and which way you accept the emoryi taxonomy. I said in my earlier post that it wasn't important to me with regards to kistachies being crosses of corn or emoryis and if emory is ssp or its own species. I live and possess kisatchies in California where there are no laws or regulation restrcting me possessing them, breeding them, and selling them. Some of the original collectors of kisatchies and those who possess them reside in states where a corn snake has several laws and regulations restrcting breeding and selling them; even making it necessary to have a permit to possess one. It is very important to these people whether we say kisatchies are integrades of corn to corns or corns to emoryis and how emoryi's taxonomy is accepted. When emoryi maintains it longtime species status and we say kisatchies are corn/emoryi integrades then kisachies are a rat snake integrade and the corn laws and regulation do not restrict them. There is no integration going on in the area where kisatchies exist. Kisatrchies are breeding with kisatchies. Kisatchies are not integrades from my view in California. I will call them integrades and accept people calling them integrades because i helps and benefits those original collectors of the current breeding stock we get offspring from. : : It's inevitable that the genes that kisatchies have be identified as to the original parental stock and that we accept or continue to support emoryi's status as ssp of guttatta or its own species. : : Now here's some info I recently heard that will add to the pot. I don't think he was saying it off the record. Someone was talking to Steve Reichling at the Memphis Zoo over the weekend. Steve writing the study and works along with support of alot of people on the Louisiana Pine giving Ruthveni its own species status and was suported and reaffirmed in the Robles- Escoba work. Steve has alot of data on kisatchies that I would love to see and get copies on. Well, I just recently heard word that a scientist has recognized kisatchies as a separate species and not a ssp or integrade. It has a scientific name, but I don't have it yet. : : Well, that's my California views from someone who has and has become addicted to these very unique snakes. : : Comments are always welcomed. : : Terry : :

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