Re: Intergrade (LONG)

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Posted by robc on March 20, 2002 at 15:51:53:

In Reply to: Re: Intergrade posted by Alan Garry on March 20, 2002 at 15:01:36:

First off I get you do not agree with the assessment that Elaphe gutatta west of the mississippi and ifact gutatta gutatta.

Anyway I think you bring up some valide points. Like you I question much of what Taxonomist tell us, based on your exact point, that many are out to make a name for themselves. Just to let you know I believe alot of this resaerch is being headed up by DR. James Dixon, who definatly has no need to make a name for himself. Not saying he can't be wrong, just not out to make a name for himself.
Now On to some of your other points, No way on earth is the Mississippi River an effective barrier. Corn Snakes are on Marathon key,Key west, Ceder Key, and just about every other Island off the coast of Florida. Not only that several other subspecies of snakes come to mind that cross the Mississippi.

I would love to read more about the break up of the obselatas, as I have only heard about it in passing. If you have it or can tell me where I might find it, I could be a little more informed to discuss it.

If you look at the habitat of east texas it is definatly more in line with type habitat of Corns as opposed to emoryi.

Pattern is identical to corn as opposed to emoryi. And yes I do scale count, and blotch count.

Body shaped is more like Corns. And yes I lived in Westren Tx groing up and lived in FL for 4 years and have seen my share of both.

Now here is the reason I do not beieve they are intergrades. All of the speciemens are close to identical. In most zones of intergradiation you can get animals that lean one way or the other. In this area we get quite a few. For Example take a look at the field collection forum, I posted two ribbons that were found under the exact same piece of A/C. One is typical rubralinatus one is typical proximus. There is NO variation that I have seen. Granted this comes from a small sample of about 30 animals I have personally found from two seperate locals. I do believe in genetics and put my faith in that answering these questions. I always look forward to discussing these types of things.

P.S If you look closely there is a fair amount of orange on both the bellies and flanks of these animals.

Follow Ups:

Re: Intergrade (LONG) Alan Garry 03/21/02 (2)
- Alan could you E-mail me? robc 03/21/02 (1)
  - Re: Yes, but give me a couple of days- - - Alan Garry 03/21/02 (0)

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: First off I get you do not agree with the assessment that Elaphe gutatta west of the mississippi and ifact gutatta gutatta. : Anyway I think you bring up some valide points. Like you I question much of what Taxonomist tell us, based on your exact point, that many are out to make a name for themselves. Just to let you know I believe alot of this resaerch is being headed up by DR. James Dixon, who definatly has no need to make a name for himself. Not saying he can't be wrong, just not out to make a name for himself. : Now On to some of your other points, No way on earth is the Mississippi River an effective barrier. Corn Snakes are on Marathon key,Key west, Ceder Key, and just about every other Island off the coast of Florida. Not only that several other subspecies of snakes come to mind that cross the Mississippi. : I would love to read more about the break up of the obselatas, as I have only heard about it in passing. If you have it or can tell me where I might find it, I could be a little more informed to discuss it. : If you look at the habitat of east texas it is definatly more in line with type habitat of Corns as opposed to emoryi. : Pattern is identical to corn as opposed to emoryi. And yes I do scale count, and blotch count. : Body shaped is more like Corns. And yes I lived in Westren Tx groing up and lived in FL for 4 years and have seen my share of both. : Now here is the reason I do not beieve they are intergrades. All of the speciemens are close to identical. In most zones of intergradiation you can get animals that lean one way or the other. In this area we get quite a few. For Example take a look at the field collection forum, I posted two ribbons that were found under the exact same piece of A/C. One is typical rubralinatus one is typical proximus. There is NO variation that I have seen. Granted this comes from a small sample of about 30 animals I have personally found from two seperate locals. I do believe in genetics and put my faith in that answering these questions. I always look forward to discussing these types of things. : P.S If you look closely there is a fair amount of orange on both the bellies and flanks of these animals.

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