Re: Elaphe rufodorsata Ques...

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Posted by Terry Cox on July 12, 2000 at 06:19:02:

In Reply to: Elaphe rufodorsata Ques... posted by Ray Reyes on July 11, 2000 at 23:51:01:

I was wondering if anyone has any info on the care and breeding on this neat little species.
: Thanks very much
: As ever
: Ray Reyes

Hi Ray,

The answer to this question can be yes or no. Some people are in your situation, they have researched, and have some info, but don't have the snakes yet. Some people have had w/c snakes, but haven't been able to keep them alive long enough to breed them. I know there's a few people that have this species, but it remains to be seen if cb specimens will hit the market or not. I'm waiting for the Breeder's Expo to see if any show up there, so I can pick up a couple for my collection.

As far as the taxonomy, it is debatable. Some think they are definately not an Elaphe, but they still retain the name. Technically they are an Elaphe until proven otherwise. If they are an Elaphe, they are a strange one. They would be the only species to be live-bearing, and possibly the only one to eat fish, although several others eat frogs. They would not be much like, or related to, E. carinata, however, which gets very large. Rufodorsata is a small snake with a maximum length of about 36 in. I believe they are most like dione and bimaculata. How different they are needs to be researched. Some think they are more like a water snake. But many have been sold as bimaculata, or as "Chinese corn snakes". Weird behavior, and different ecological circumstances, don't necessarily mean the snakes can't be related. This is a question for a super sleuth.

Elaphe rufodorsata is live-bearing. So are a lot of snakes, even some that have relatives that lay eggs. It's got to be possible they are an Elaphe. In a strand a few days ago it was mentioned that dione can hatch in as few as 13 days. That's close to live birth.

Elaphe rufodorsata eats fish. Ya, but they also eat frogs and mice, which are ratsnake food. Behavior might be closer to a water snake, but doesn't mean that an Elaphe couldn't evolve in that direction. Remember ratsnakes are pretty much generalists. There is tremendous diversity in the genus. For almost every possible prey item for a snake, you can probably find an Elaphe that eats it at one time or another. I don't think behavioral characteristics is a good way to do taxonomy.

We need people to study this species. It would be great if you started on them, Ray. I hope you find them. Keep me informed and maybe we can work together on these. Let me know if you're going to Daytona and I can meet you there. Hopefully anyone else with info will join the discussion. Thanks.

TC/Ratsnake Haven

Follow Ups:

Thanks for the info..more.. Ray Reyes 07/12/00 (5)
- Problem with w/c rufos.............. Terry 07/12/00 (4)
  - Re: Problem with w/c rufos.............. Rob and Amy 07/13/00 (3)
    - Establishing rufos.............> Terry 07/14/00 (2)
      - Re: Establishing rufos.............> Rob and Amy 07/14/00 (1)
        
        Re: Establishing rufos.............> Terry 07/16/00 (0)

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: I was wondering if anyone has any info on the care and breeding on this neat little species. : : Thanks very much : : As ever : : Ray Reyes : Hi Ray, : The answer to this question can be yes or no. Some people are in your situation, they have researched, and have some info, but don't have the snakes yet. Some people have had w/c snakes, but haven't been able to keep them alive long enough to breed them. I know there's a few people that have this species, but it remains to be seen if cb specimens will hit the market or not. I'm waiting for the Breeder's Expo to see if any show up there, so I can pick up a couple for my collection. : As far as the taxonomy, it is debatable. Some think they are definately not an Elaphe, but they still retain the name. Technically they are an Elaphe until proven otherwise. If they are an Elaphe, they are a strange one. They would be the only species to be live-bearing, and possibly the only one to eat fish, although several others eat frogs. They would not be much like, or related to, E. carinata, however, which gets very large. Rufodorsata is a small snake with a maximum length of about 36 in. I believe they are most like dione and bimaculata. How different they are needs to be researched. Some think they are more like a water snake. But many have been sold as bimaculata, or as "Chinese corn snakes". Weird behavior, and different ecological circumstances, don't necessarily mean the snakes can't be related. This is a question for a super sleuth. : Elaphe rufodorsata is live-bearing. So are a lot of snakes, even some that have relatives that lay eggs. It's got to be possible they are an Elaphe. In a strand a few days ago it was mentioned that dione can hatch in as few as 13 days. That's close to live birth. : Elaphe rufodorsata eats fish. Ya, but they also eat frogs and mice, which are ratsnake food. Behavior might be closer to a water snake, but doesn't mean that an Elaphe couldn't evolve in that direction. Remember ratsnakes are pretty much generalists. There is tremendous diversity in the genus. For almost every possible prey item for a snake, you can probably find an Elaphe that eats it at one time or another. I don't think behavioral characteristics is a good way to do taxonomy. : We need people to study this species. It would be great if you started on them, Ray. I hope you find them. Keep me informed and maybe we can work together on these. Let me know if you're going to Daytona and I can meet you there. Hopefully anyone else with info will join the discussion. Thanks. : TC/Ratsnake Haven

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