Petco Iguanas

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Posted by Travis on February 09, 2001 at 21:45:25:

Ok I am going to get heat for this but I am going to spew forth . I know how much you want to save this iguana ( the petco one ) and I am all for it . However I feel I should point out that a sick iguana in a pet store can do more for the " Cause " then removing it . If you do manage to get this iguana what are they going to replace it with another iguana ? Belive me I know how hard it is to look at an iguana in a store you know you can take it home and give it a better life . Sometimes you can save many by not doing this . If they don't sell they don't buy more . I am attaching a article by Daniel W. Bates on the things going on in Maine and the struggle to save iguanas .

Oak Trees and Iguanas by Daniel W. Bates

I read with interest the recent MHS article relating the new restriction
on iguana sales and ownership. Many iguana lovers will feel a sense of
relief...now the little buggers will be safe from the pet industry's
excesses. Many may also feel a bit frustrated, for now a committee of
rather anonymous disinterested parties will have the final decision over
our reptile hobby.

Permit issuance usually takes one of two forms: In one version,
permission is assumed and therefore granted unless there is obvious
question as to the appropriateness of the applicant. Hunting and fishing
licenses are examples of this type of permit. In the second type, the
applicant must compellingly argue for an exception to an assumed
restriction. Maine herptile permitting leans closer to this form. As I
discovered a few years ago, the human element can make this into a
very arbitrary process. For example, if the deciding authority doesn't
share your interest in a particular species, they will not see a request as
"reasonable".

For this reason, I regret the recent decision to restrict iguanas. It is not
meant to protect the environment (they can't survive a Maine autumn, let
alone winter) It is not meant to protect the public (even the nastiest
iguana doesn't seek and destroy toddlers as do some dogs). It is meant
to protect cute little iguanas. The goal is to allow them to live a long
"natural" life. I question the intelligence of this reasoning, and here's why:

A man once asked me to guess just how many of the millions of acorns
dropped by an oak tree during its long life, would sprout and grow up to
be mature oaks. I remember trying to be intelligently conservative and
guess low....certainly not half (I thought to myself)....no, not even a
tenth....probably one in a hundred?....he interrupted my ponderings with
an triumphant; "One! " I immediately grasped the concept (and felt a tad
foolish!)

It is the ecologist's valid assumption that a species replaces itself in a
steady-state biosystem; no more, no less. A male and female fly may
produce a million fertile eggs in their lives, but on the average, only two
offspring will survive birth, infancy, nymphhood, and grow up to replace
the parents that spawned them. That's indisputable. The same is true of
reptiles, of course. Every iguana that has ever lived will die, most of
them in the egg or as juveniles, and some just as they reach mating
age...... many die slowly and horribly in the claws of a predator, or
cooped up in an unventilated shipping box, or hanging in a village market
stall, or even abandoned in a dirty North American city and squashed by
a car. Nature's way is for every living organism to struggle to survive and
produce as many offspring as possible...but in reality it averages out to
one offspring per parent. A long life is not nature's way. A short life
'nipped in the bud' is far more "natural" for the average individual. This is
what permits steady state (more or less) populations of all species on
our planet.

The Iguana "farms" of Central America protect the eggs and hatchlings
from the earliest threats in their life cycles, so that many more juveniles
survive and are able to be shipped to El Norte. That is how animal
husbandry works. Breeding programs merely artificially elevate the
census, so the critters live long enough to die up here instead of as
indigenous juveniles . This is not unlike the state-run breeding and
restocking programs for trout and pheasants here in Maine. Raise 'em,
make some revenue off 'em, to heck with 'em. Same thing!

If the reader is wondering what this has to do with Maine reptile
enthusiasts, it is that over and over I see herpetophiles taking stands on
issues with little true perspective. None of us like to see crowded
conditions, filthy caging, and suffering animals doomed to slow deaths.
We tend to become understandably upset when confronted by such
scenes in pet shops and elsewhere.

The thought of a critter being sold to the proverbial eleven year old boy,
to have its life ended through ignorant neglect is dismaying to say the
least. I feel any of us can be forgiven for arriving at the next quasi-logical
conclusion that pet shop sales need tighter controls. If we keep
importing reptiles, they will continue being profitable and will continue to
be protected (from local predation) long enough to come up to the
Northeast to spend their lives in captivity and die.

My point is that whether left in the wild, or captured and sold on the pet
trade, most reptiles and amphibians die long before their so-called
"natural lifespan" is up. So I ask you, the reader: Is captivity in any way
worse than letting them die in their natural habitat? I sincerely believe
that the only real difference is that when an animal dies in captivity, we
witness the suffering and feel a collective guilt. Perhaps a better way to
protect pet store animals would be to publicly put pressure on the
vendors while vigorously educating the consumers.

Does this mean I am against a permit system? No not really....but I
would feel far more comfortable if I felt that the system was friendly to
the serious enthusiast. I don't have enough faith in authority to want to
have to first justify my interests, and then, prove my worthiness as well.
How does one justify a hobby such as stamp collecting or surfing the
net? As herp enthusiasts we happened to be drawn to herps, period.

I do feel that protection of the environment against accidentally released
specimens is a valid goal, but given our climate, very few reptile and
amphibians are sufficiently cold-adaptable to fall under that criterion.
Species which come under "endangered" and "protected" columns
should probably only be allowed to be kept by enthusiasts willing and
knowledgeable enough to breed them. If a breeder is producing a clutch
of indigo snakes each season, and putting them out on the market, there
will be less draw for unscrupulous wild collection of that species.

As for species "dangerous to the public", I feel that yes, most venomous
snakes are worthy of restriction (notice I don't say outright "prohibition")
as are large crocs, and boids. However a responsible individual capable
of providing bombproof and humane housing, ought not be denied
ownership of such critters. They are certainly not more hazardous than
many dogs, horses, cattle, bees, and of course, automobiles. Such
individuals should willingly develop a written and enforceable plan for
disposal of their specimens when they can no longer safely contain them
due to growth or breeding. Disposal could take the form of returning
them to their native habitats, transferring them to more suitable
institutions, or euthanasia. Heck, if it weren't for the alligator ranches the
American alligator might be extinct by now. What is wrong with raising a
young croc (or monitor or python) as a fascinating pet, and harvesting it
in a merciful fashion when it reaches unmanageable size. Again, what
I've just described is a far kinder life than the average herp gets to live in
the wild.

It remains unclear to me exactly how our system of permitting in Maine
is structured. The impression I got a couple of years ago was that a
Permit application is viewed by the Agency (Fish and Game?) and that
they ask a member of another State agency who happens to have some
herp background, for an opinion, and then base their ruling on that. It
seems a tad arbitrary if this is still the procedure. I would welcome a
MHS newsletter update on the current permitting system in Maine.

This is our interest. We are arguably the only (non-profiteering) entity
with sufficient collective knowledge and perspective to intelligently
consider the various issues brought up in herpetoculture. I strongly feel
that our legislative influence should be more active in an ongoing manner.
Please write in. I would love to hear other opinions on the issue of
legislating the acquisition and husbandry of reptiles and amphibians.

Follow Ups:

Re: Petco Iguanas Kimberley 02/10/01 (0)
Re: Petco Iguanas Diana 02/10/01 (0)
Re: Petco Iguanas/long Mr. D 02/10/01 (1)
- Devils advocate Travis 02/10/01 (0)

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Comments:
: Ok I am going to get heat for this but I am going to spew forth . I know how much you want to save this iguana ( the petco one ) and I am all for it . However I feel I should point out that a sick iguana in a pet store can do more for the " Cause " then removing it . If you do manage to get this iguana what are they going to replace it with another iguana ? Belive me I know how hard it is to look at an iguana in a store you know you can take it home and give it a better life . Sometimes you can save many by not doing this . If they don't sell they don't buy more . I am attaching a article by Daniel W. Bates on the things going on in Maine and the struggle to save iguanas . : Oak Trees and Iguanas by Daniel W. Bates : I read with interest the recent MHS article relating the new restriction : on iguana sales and ownership. Many iguana lovers will feel a sense of : relief...now the little buggers will be safe from the pet industry's : excesses. Many may also feel a bit frustrated, for now a committee of : rather anonymous disinterested parties will have the final decision over : our reptile hobby. : Permit issuance usually takes one of two forms: In one version, : permission is assumed and therefore granted unless there is obvious : question as to the appropriateness of the applicant. Hunting and fishing : licenses are examples of this type of permit. In the second type, the : applicant must compellingly argue for an exception to an assumed : restriction. Maine herptile permitting leans closer to this form. As I : discovered a few years ago, the human element can make this into a : very arbitrary process. For example, if the deciding authority doesn't : share your interest in a particular species, they will not see a request as : "reasonable". : For this reason, I regret the recent decision to restrict iguanas. It is not : meant to protect the environment (they can't survive a Maine autumn, let : alone winter) It is not meant to protect the public (even the nastiest : iguana doesn't seek and destroy toddlers as do some dogs). It is meant : to protect cute little iguanas. The goal is to allow them to live a long : "natural" life. I question the intelligence of this reasoning, and here's why: : A man once asked me to guess just how many of the millions of acorns : dropped by an oak tree during its long life, would sprout and grow up to : be mature oaks. I remember trying to be intelligently conservative and : guess low....certainly not half (I thought to myself)....no, not even a : tenth....probably one in a hundred?....he interrupted my ponderings with : an triumphant; "One! " I immediately grasped the concept (and felt a tad : foolish!) : It is the ecologist's valid assumption that a species replaces itself in a : steady-state biosystem; no more, no less. A male and female fly may : produce a million fertile eggs in their lives, but on the average, only two : offspring will survive birth, infancy, nymphhood, and grow up to replace : the parents that spawned them. That's indisputable. The same is true of : reptiles, of course. Every iguana that has ever lived will die, most of : them in the egg or as juveniles, and some just as they reach mating : age...... many die slowly and horribly in the claws of a predator, or : cooped up in an unventilated shipping box, or hanging in a village market : stall, or even abandoned in a dirty North American city and squashed by : a car. Nature's way is for every living organism to struggle to survive and : produce as many offspring as possible...but in reality it averages out to : one offspring per parent. A long life is not nature's way. A short life : 'nipped in the bud' is far more "natural" for the average individual. This is : what permits steady state (more or less) populations of all species on : our planet. : The Iguana "farms" of Central America protect the eggs and hatchlings : from the earliest threats in their life cycles, so that many more juveniles : survive and are able to be shipped to El Norte. That is how animal : husbandry works. Breeding programs merely artificially elevate the : census, so the critters live long enough to die up here instead of as : indigenous juveniles . This is not unlike the state-run breeding and : restocking programs for trout and pheasants here in Maine. Raise 'em, : make some revenue off 'em, to heck with 'em. Same thing! : If the reader is wondering what this has to do with Maine reptile : enthusiasts, it is that over and over I see herpetophiles taking stands on : issues with little true perspective. None of us like to see crowded : conditions, filthy caging, and suffering animals doomed to slow deaths. : We tend to become understandably upset when confronted by such : scenes in pet shops and elsewhere. : The thought of a critter being sold to the proverbial eleven year old boy, : to have its life ended through ignorant neglect is dismaying to say the : least. I feel any of us can be forgiven for arriving at the next quasi-logical : conclusion that pet shop sales need tighter controls. If we keep : importing reptiles, they will continue being profitable and will continue to : be protected (from local predation) long enough to come up to the : Northeast to spend their lives in captivity and die. : My point is that whether left in the wild, or captured and sold on the pet : trade, most reptiles and amphibians die long before their so-called : "natural lifespan" is up. So I ask you, the reader: Is captivity in any way : worse than letting them die in their natural habitat? I sincerely believe : that the only real difference is that when an animal dies in captivity, we : witness the suffering and feel a collective guilt. Perhaps a better way to : protect pet store animals would be to publicly put pressure on the : vendors while vigorously educating the consumers. : Does this mean I am against a permit system? No not really....but I : would feel far more comfortable if I felt that the system was friendly to : the serious enthusiast. I don't have enough faith in authority to want to : have to first justify my interests, and then, prove my worthiness as well. : How does one justify a hobby such as stamp collecting or surfing the : net? As herp enthusiasts we happened to be drawn to herps, period. : I do feel that protection of the environment against accidentally released : specimens is a valid goal, but given our climate, very few reptile and : amphibians are sufficiently cold-adaptable to fall under that criterion. : Species which come under "endangered" and "protected" columns : should probably only be allowed to be kept by enthusiasts willing and : knowledgeable enough to breed them. If a breeder is producing a clutch : of indigo snakes each season, and putting them out on the market, there : will be less draw for unscrupulous wild collection of that species. : As for species "dangerous to the public", I feel that yes, most venomous : snakes are worthy of restriction (notice I don't say outright "prohibition") : as are large crocs, and boids. However a responsible individual capable : of providing bombproof and humane housing, ought not be denied : ownership of such critters. They are certainly not more hazardous than : many dogs, horses, cattle, bees, and of course, automobiles. Such : individuals should willingly develop a written and enforceable plan for : disposal of their specimens when they can no longer safely contain them : due to growth or breeding. Disposal could take the form of returning : them to their native habitats, transferring them to more suitable : institutions, or euthanasia. Heck, if it weren't for the alligator ranches the : American alligator might be extinct by now. What is wrong with raising a : young croc (or monitor or python) as a fascinating pet, and harvesting it : in a merciful fashion when it reaches unmanageable size. Again, what : I've just described is a far kinder life than the average herp gets to live in : the wild. : It remains unclear to me exactly how our system of permitting in Maine : is structured. The impression I got a couple of years ago was that a : Permit application is viewed by the Agency (Fish and Game?) and that : they ask a member of another State agency who happens to have some : herp background, for an opinion, and then base their ruling on that. It : seems a tad arbitrary if this is still the procedure. I would welcome a : MHS newsletter update on the current permitting system in Maine. : This is our interest. We are arguably the only (non-profiteering) entity : with sufficient collective knowledge and perspective to intelligently : consider the various issues brought up in herpetoculture. I strongly feel : that our legislative influence should be more active in an ongoing manner. : Please write in. I would love to hear other opinions on the issue of : legislating the acquisition and husbandry of reptiles and amphibians.

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