I didn't throw the first stone....

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Posted by Souella on December 05, 2000 at 12:25:25:

In Reply to: Re: My point posted by Sue2 on December 05, 2000 at 11:37:01:

Immediate assumptions were made about where I purchased this iguana and replies were posted as such. I appreciate you have strong feelings on the issues of iguanas, but I do not like being lectured or having assumptions made about me. Education is fine, but a diplomat some of you are not.

: I�ve read and re-read all of the posts regarding �wish me luck with hatchling rescue�� When HD posted his first response, he did not name call you, but tried to provide some education.

He made false assumptions and then immediately proceeded to lecture me about them.

Again, to EVERYONE out there reading the forum, not just you. If you�d take a moment and go back and re-read all of the posts, you became very very defensive from the get go. It�s a shame.

If it wasn't direct AT me, then why not start a new topic entirely entitled, 'The Best Way to Acquire an Iguana'. Why not post your reasoning under there instead? You could have answered my splinting question which is all I really wanted. I would have read the new posting and perhaps even commented on it. People new to the forum would then have seen a clearly defined question instead of having to hunt through the mess that got posted in response to my question.

: You personally attack me in your post above. That was really uncalled for, but I�ll let it go. Just a suggestion, but if you weren�t so defensive or snippy in your posts, you might just get friendlier responses (catch more flies with honey).

I hardly see that I attacked you, but I will respond as I am treated. As I said, 'no diplomat.'

: I can understand your frustration as to here you thought you had done a good deed and you did not receive the response you had hoped for. Its nothing personal. No one on this forum �knows� you, but you act like we all were ganging up on you. Not true.

Well, it did not seem like that.

The intent was to educate all those who read the forum on what happens when you think you are �rescuing� an iguana from pet store, herp show, whatever (those who try and sell iguanas to make money). It�s the big picture that people need to be educated on. Right or wrong, you acted with your heart when you took the injured iguana in.

See my reasoning above.

:I responded to your questions under my post titled �Mrs. High and Mighty�. In fact, I left your original questions under my post and answered them. Go back and read your response to me. You had asked, and I quote, �How long did it take for the ig to heal as I am not sure how long to keep the splint on.� I provided you with a response and your comment back to me was quite snippy � �I am aware of these things, I am not a newbie.�). You asked, I answered, you snapped. I�m confused, but if you knew the answer, why did you ask?

I responded with the newbie comment specifically in response to the paragraph concerning a basic good idea, to take a new iguana in to get a vet check and get a fecal done. That and nothing more. You probably then wonder, why did I not follow my own comment here. First, it was Sunday when i acquired the ig. Not a tremendous number of vets available on Sunday. I wanted to see if the ig would respond to liquids and food being offered it. If the little guy was too weak to even want food or water, then perhaps humane euthanization was best. If he was too weak and destined to die, I am not going to spend a $100+ bucks to have the vet tell me that. Perhaps it is harsh, but it is how I feel. I do not run to the doctor for every little ailment. I personally have had a broken foot, broken tail bone, and broken bones in both hands...did I go to the doc for any of it....no....i do not run the doctor when a little time will heal.

: Also, you mentioned that you were angered at the responses you received (no hugs, pat on the back, etc.), but others with iglets post pics and whatnot and they get the response you were seeking. I think I counted 5 out of 7 (myself included) people responding to your original post, wished you good luck with your iguanas.

And I appreciate those good sentiments and tried to respond with 'thank you' when I could. If I missed someone, then I apologize. But I thought this forum supported its posters and not just bashed them.

I scrolled down a ways on the forum this morning and for the most part, those of us who do iguana rescue and rehab, do not usually respond. Unfortunately, the average first time iguana owner does not know that there is an iguana problem. With this forum, we try to also educate the public with the facts. Since you have stated numerous times that you are not a novice, maybe we expected too much from you. Its one thing to be uneducated about the plight of iguanas, but another thing if you know about it and choose to do nothing (whether in a small way or a big way).

Not everyone is an activist.

: For you or anyone else out there that is just bent on getting an iglet, as Lexi stated, rescue groups do get in iglets from time to time. All you would have had to do is ask for help on who to contact. Some rescue groups will ship iguanas (and other herps). If you�re patient enough, sooner or later an iglet will turn up through a rescue group.

I have also noticed that many of you that post here are from the northeast and west coast. Of course, you guys have a larger population base where you are and a wider variety of adoptees will be available to you. It might also prove helpful if forum posters would regularly post available igs along with those posts saying 'i just took another one in'. I also do not like the idea of receiving an iguana sight unseen shipped to me like a turtle. Iguanas have a depth of personality and individuality that turtles do not have. Any iguana that I would take in would have to be seen in person by me first so that I can see what I am getting into. Is the new ig feisty or complacent or whatever. Turtles have personality too, but the variations on the basic personality for a particular species of turtle is a lot smaller. You know what to expect, when you get a particular turtle. Igs are much more individual.

: You asked why do we have iguanas. Same as many others. Our daughter wanted one, so we took in an adult female. Why do we do rescue? Because the animal shelters either euthanize them or flat out refuse to take them in. Are we a dumping ground? Nope. I�ll be honest with you. We do pick and choose which iguanas we will accept (those that are adoptable). We also require that the person surrendering the iguana not only give up ALL supplies (cage, lights, etc.), but they must also pay a surrender fee (helps defray the cost of the vet visit). No exceptions. Why? A couple of reasons. One, if the cage is usable, we use it. By requiring that the iguana�s supplies be handed over, it prevents the owner from having an empty cage around the house and them feeling the need to put something in it. Also, when we find a suitable home, the iguana is adopted out at no charge and in some cases, the cage and supplies are also given to the new owner.

That may be how some rescue's operate, but you cannot say that about all. One local rescue will take igs along with cages and supplies, but they do not adopt out. Period. I know of another rescue with igs available requiring adoption fees with fees being lower or dropped for 'meaner' igs. I have known people who bought baby igs, raised them til they were juvies and then gave them away. Mostly to rescues. Then they went and bought a new baby ig. They only wanted to care for small igs. I did not agree with what they were doing, but things like this do occur.

: Bottom line is Souella, what started out as educational responses to your original posts, turned into personal attacks by you. We all need to act like the adults that we are.

That's funny because I suddenly felt like I had just stepped back into high school again. I hated it then and I certainly didn't appreciate experiencing it again.

: Again, I wish you luck with your 2 new iglets.

Thank you, that is appreciated.

Follow Ups:

Two and only two things....... Harry's Dad 12/05/00 (1)
- Re: Two and only two things....... Souella 12/05/00 (0)

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: Immediate assumptions were made about where I purchased this iguana and replies were posted as such. I appreciate you have strong feelings on the issues of iguanas, but I do not like being lectured or having assumptions made about me. Education is fine, but a diplomat some of you are not. : : I�ve read and re-read all of the posts regarding �wish me luck with hatchling rescue�� When HD posted his first response, he did not name call you, but tried to provide some education. : He made false assumptions and then immediately proceeded to lecture me about them. : Again, to EVERYONE out there reading the forum, not just you. If you�d take a moment and go back and re-read all of the posts, you became very very defensive from the get go. It�s a shame. : If it wasn't direct AT me, then why not start a new topic entirely entitled, 'The Best Way to Acquire an Iguana'. Why not post your reasoning under there instead? You could have answered my splinting question which is all I really wanted. I would have read the new posting and perhaps even commented on it. People new to the forum would then have seen a clearly defined question instead of having to hunt through the mess that got posted in response to my question. : : You personally attack me in your post above. That was really uncalled for, but I�ll let it go. Just a suggestion, but if you weren�t so defensive or snippy in your posts, you might just get friendlier responses (catch more flies with honey). : I hardly see that I attacked you, but I will respond as I am treated. As I said, 'no diplomat.' : : I can understand your frustration as to here you thought you had done a good deed and you did not receive the response you had hoped for. Its nothing personal. No one on this forum �knows� you, but you act like we all were ganging up on you. Not true. : Well, it did not seem like that. : The intent was to educate all those who read the forum on what happens when you think you are �rescuing� an iguana from pet store, herp show, whatever (those who try and sell iguanas to make money). It�s the big picture that people need to be educated on. Right or wrong, you acted with your heart when you took the injured iguana in. : See my reasoning above. : :I responded to your questions under my post titled �Mrs. High and Mighty�. In fact, I left your original questions under my post and answered them. Go back and read your response to me. You had asked, and I quote, �How long did it take for the ig to heal as I am not sure how long to keep the splint on.� I provided you with a response and your comment back to me was quite snippy � �I am aware of these things, I am not a newbie.�). You asked, I answered, you snapped. I�m confused, but if you knew the answer, why did you ask? : I responded with the newbie comment specifically in response to the paragraph concerning a basic good idea, to take a new iguana in to get a vet check and get a fecal done. That and nothing more. You probably then wonder, why did I not follow my own comment here. First, it was Sunday when i acquired the ig. Not a tremendous number of vets available on Sunday. I wanted to see if the ig would respond to liquids and food being offered it. If the little guy was too weak to even want food or water, then perhaps humane euthanization was best. If he was too weak and destined to die, I am not going to spend a $100+ bucks to have the vet tell me that. Perhaps it is harsh, but it is how I feel. I do not run to the doctor for every little ailment. I personally have had a broken foot, broken tail bone, and broken bones in both hands...did I go to the doc for any of it....no....i do not run the doctor when a little time will heal. : : Also, you mentioned that you were angered at the responses you received (no hugs, pat on the back, etc.), but others with iglets post pics and whatnot and they get the response you were seeking. I think I counted 5 out of 7 (myself included) people responding to your original post, wished you good luck with your iguanas. : And I appreciate those good sentiments and tried to respond with 'thank you' when I could. If I missed someone, then I apologize. But I thought this forum supported its posters and not just bashed them. : I scrolled down a ways on the forum this morning and for the most part, those of us who do iguana rescue and rehab, do not usually respond. Unfortunately, the average first time iguana owner does not know that there is an iguana problem. With this forum, we try to also educate the public with the facts. Since you have stated numerous times that you are not a novice, maybe we expected too much from you. Its one thing to be uneducated about the plight of iguanas, but another thing if you know about it and choose to do nothing (whether in a small way or a big way). : Not everyone is an activist. : : For you or anyone else out there that is just bent on getting an iglet, as Lexi stated, rescue groups do get in iglets from time to time. All you would have had to do is ask for help on who to contact. Some rescue groups will ship iguanas (and other herps). If you�re patient enough, sooner or later an iglet will turn up through a rescue group. : I have also noticed that many of you that post here are from the northeast and west coast. Of course, you guys have a larger population base where you are and a wider variety of adoptees will be available to you. It might also prove helpful if forum posters would regularly post available igs along with those posts saying 'i just took another one in'. I also do not like the idea of receiving an iguana sight unseen shipped to me like a turtle. Iguanas have a depth of personality and individuality that turtles do not have. Any iguana that I would take in would have to be seen in person by me first so that I can see what I am getting into. Is the new ig feisty or complacent or whatever. Turtles have personality too, but the variations on the basic personality for a particular species of turtle is a lot smaller. You know what to expect, when you get a particular turtle. Igs are much more individual. : : You asked why do we have iguanas. Same as many others. Our daughter wanted one, so we took in an adult female. Why do we do rescue? Because the animal shelters either euthanize them or flat out refuse to take them in. Are we a dumping ground? Nope. I�ll be honest with you. We do pick and choose which iguanas we will accept (those that are adoptable). We also require that the person surrendering the iguana not only give up ALL supplies (cage, lights, etc.), but they must also pay a surrender fee (helps defray the cost of the vet visit). No exceptions. Why? A couple of reasons. One, if the cage is usable, we use it. By requiring that the iguana�s supplies be handed over, it prevents the owner from having an empty cage around the house and them feeling the need to put something in it. Also, when we find a suitable home, the iguana is adopted out at no charge and in some cases, the cage and supplies are also given to the new owner. : That may be how some rescue's operate, but you cannot say that about all. One local rescue will take igs along with cages and supplies, but they do not adopt out. Period. I know of another rescue with igs available requiring adoption fees with fees being lower or dropped for 'meaner' igs. I have known people who bought baby igs, raised them til they were juvies and then gave them away. Mostly to rescues. Then they went and bought a new baby ig. They only wanted to care for small igs. I did not agree with what they were doing, but things like this do occur. : : Bottom line is Souella, what started out as educational responses to your original posts, turned into personal attacks by you. We all need to act like the adults that we are. : That's funny because I suddenly felt like I had just stepped back into high school again. I hated it then and I certainly didn't appreciate experiencing it again. : : Again, I wish you luck with your 2 new iglets. : Thank you, that is appreciated.

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