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Posted by Sharon on May 08, 2001 at 07:43:35:

In Reply to: my very own little editorial ... posted by iZ's mom on May 07, 2001 at 23:42:12:

I really like that - it makes a good catch phrase!

My thoughts on this:

A. It cannot be assumed that everyone here (or anywhere) is intelligent or mature enough to read a bunch of advice or ideas and use the information wisely. It is all too common in this world that people choose not to think for themselves or do enough research before acting in many different areas of life. This is not a flaw in those who OFFER ideas and information - but in those who take the info handed to them and simply ACCEPT it. No one with insights or ideas should be dissuaded from speaking openly and frankly just because there could be people around who are not willing to do some critical thinking and make the effort to learn more before acting.

B. I think places like this are WONDERFUL and it is great to have a group of animal owners right here to talk about our animals...None of us is going to be right all the time or know EVERYTHING; that is why we need this place.

C. Experience can be the best teacher and if I can learn something from YOU (or anyone) and not have to learn by a mistake that takes the life of a loved one, I am grateful for that opportunity. It is my choice whether or not to take the advice offered here (or elsewhere) and I choose to use critical thinking skills and logical discernment in combination with my own research and studies to make my choices. I would not rely solely on the word of one person on a message board, and NO ONE should...but the fact is that these posts of advice and info are very valuable in helping us learn and pointing us in the right direction. A person who has owned Iguanas or any herp for years has ALOT to offer a new owner in the way of experience knowledge.

E. (And this is the harsh one) Any person who blindly and without research, studies, or experience, follows the advice of someone they do not know in these matters is a fool and should probably not own herps at all. There is a level of immaturity and irresponsibility present when a person chooses to jump on a message board and read other people's opinions, taking these as LAW rather than buying some books, talking to experts, or doing some real studies. The problem is really about those who *substitute* this forum for REAL preparation and training in raising these animals. This is a SUPPLEMENT to learning how to raise and care for our pets, NOT a TUTORIAL to be used as our sole information on how to do it.

F. On younger and less experienced owners - while I do not feel age is necessarily a precursor to bad caregiving, I do think that younger and inexperienced pet owners are more prone to taking advice blindly and should be dissuaded from this. In many cases, poor petstore info sheets and bad info OUTSIDE of this place can cause people to think Iguanas are a good kids pet...which (I am sorry) they ARE NOT. But it is not my responsibility any more than it is the responsibilty of the news reporter on the 6 o'clock news to safegaurd every reader/listener from every word said. Should the news be stopped just because some people are not prepared to think for themselves and do something stupid because they saw it on TV? Of course not...

ANYWAY...I could go through the whole alphabet here **smiles**...I tend to find this same debate no matter what type of online forum I visit because of the simple fact that some people are GOING TO be stupid and blindly follow advice without thinking. That is not my problem, or the problem of those here to offer support and information. (Isn't there an overall dislaimer on the forum site itself that already states that we are not experts?) Sadly - If someone came here and posted that it was recently discovered that Iguanas could be raised as aquatic animals, chances are SOMEONE would give it a try without thinking. That is sad, but we cannot eliminate interactions and communication (info exchange) among those of us who DO think for ourselves simply beause there are dumb folks out there. It is sad for the animals that fall into the care of a keeper who never picked up a book on the subject, but heck; even the books can be wrong...so there is no 100% RIGHT way anyhow.

This whole issue, in my opinion, is a moot point. People will ALWAYS disagree, people will ALWAYS act as they choose, and we can NEVER be sure that something we say (even tiny harmless things) are not going to be translated into something BAD...

But there is no need to stop sharing what you know or exchanging ideas and thoughts with others.

(But of course, there will be some who disagree with me and that is fine too. But seriously, folks - think about it...how can YOU determine what another person does with the info you give them? You can't. And you should not have to.)

~Shar
(who is now expecting to be dodging the iggy poop)

: Bon.'s mission statement:

: to offer my experience, knowledge, common sense, and opinions on this forum whenever *I* feel i have something of value to contribute ~ be it environmental, dietary, medical, anecdotal, or anything else ~ and to do this in a CIVIL manner ...

: to continue to question people's point of view when it differs from mine IN AN EFFORT TO LEARN from that difference, with the knowledge that NO ONE PERSON IS ALWAYS RIGHT, including myself ...

: even when i wholeheartedly disagree with another's opinion, I WILL REMAIN CIVIL ...
: (Mama always said ~ if you can't say something nice, shut your f***ing mouth ...)

: i will strive to be OPEN-MINDED about all things, acknowledging the basic tenet of life: there are more shades of grey than black or white ...

: ~*~
: i believe it IS possible to disagree WITHOUT saying to the other person "YOU are Wrong" ...
: disagreement, debates, discussion ... they make us think and help us learn ...
: i would hate for ANY one to feel bad for disagreeing with me or to be wary of disagreeing with me! if we start being afraid of disagreeing, we become afraid of discussing things too ... + then we quit learning altogether!
: ... and we will have ALL failed and we will ALL have lost ...

: last fall, the advisability of my posts concerning medical procedures was questioned ~
: what IS appropriate to discuss on this forum???
: are posts discussing medical procedures to be considered taboo??
: do we have to carefully word every single little thought as if we are potentially talking to an absolute moron???
: do we have to "disclaim" everything we say: "I am NOT A VET"???
: are we to stop relying on each other in the ig community for advice, input, and general information???

: Webmaster Joseph Forks offered this opinion regarding those questions in an email i'd sent him, and i think it applies to US ALL:

: "The IHS has an award named after Josef Laszlo.
: Josef Laszlo was the Curator of Reptiles at the San Antonio Zoo.
: Among Josef's admirable qualities was the willing to take the time, and interest in both the young "neophyte" collectors and keepers and their animals. That patience and willingness made Josef Laszlo one the most admirable and memorable people in my life. Over a decade after his death, his influence is felt daily.

: Now I will ask you, have you gone too far with your advice?
: Can you make a difference in one person's (or reptile's) life?
: Without people like you, these forums would not be what they are.
: Mind you I'm not judging the quality of your content,
: but the fact that you care enough to write about it."

:
: in closing, let me say one more time ~ IGS BEFORE EGOS!
: if *I* feel i have something of value to offer regarding igs, i WILL offer it ...
: and as my conscious sees fit, i WILL offer it ON this forum ...
: i WILL NOT allow another forum member to censor me ...

: and as Mama also always told us:
: "If you can't play nice, go to your room!"

: Bon.

Follow Ups:

Re: and , and , and, yeah !! ;-) very nice post Sharon! n/p BabyHerp 05/09/01 (0)

Re: IGS BEFORE EGOS Travis 05/08/01 (1)

bravo! Sharon 05/08/01 (0)

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Comments:
: I really like that - it makes a good catch phrase! : My thoughts on this: : A. It cannot be assumed that everyone here (or anywhere) is intelligent or mature enough to read a bunch of advice or ideas and use the information wisely. It is all too common in this world that people choose not to think for themselves or do enough research before acting in many different areas of life. This is not a flaw in those who OFFER ideas and information - but in those who take the info handed to them and simply ACCEPT it. No one with insights or ideas should be dissuaded from speaking openly and frankly just because there could be people around who are not willing to do some critical thinking and make the effort to learn more before acting. : B. I think places like this are WONDERFUL and it is great to have a group of animal owners right here to talk about our animals...None of us is going to be right all the time or know EVERYTHING; that is why we need this place. : C. Experience can be the best teacher and if I can learn something from YOU (or anyone) and not have to learn by a mistake that takes the life of a loved one, I am grateful for that opportunity. It is my choice whether or not to take the advice offered here (or elsewhere) and I choose to use critical thinking skills and logical discernment in combination with my own research and studies to make my choices. I would not rely solely on the word of one person on a message board, and NO ONE should...but the fact is that these posts of advice and info are very valuable in helping us learn and pointing us in the right direction. A person who has owned Iguanas or any herp for years has ALOT to offer a new owner in the way of experience knowledge. : E. (And this is the harsh one) Any person who blindly and without research, studies, or experience, follows the advice of someone they do not know in these matters is a fool and should probably not own herps at all. There is a level of immaturity and irresponsibility present when a person chooses to jump on a message board and read other people's opinions, taking these as LAW rather than buying some books, talking to experts, or doing some real studies. The problem is really about those who *substitute* this forum for REAL preparation and training in raising these animals. This is a SUPPLEMENT to learning how to raise and care for our pets, NOT a TUTORIAL to be used as our sole information on how to do it. : F. On younger and less experienced owners - while I do not feel age is necessarily a precursor to bad caregiving, I do think that younger and inexperienced pet owners are more prone to taking advice blindly and should be dissuaded from this. In many cases, poor petstore info sheets and bad info OUTSIDE of this place can cause people to think Iguanas are a good kids pet...which (I am sorry) they ARE NOT. But it is not my responsibility any more than it is the responsibilty of the news reporter on the 6 o'clock news to safegaurd every reader/listener from every word said. Should the news be stopped just because some people are not prepared to think for themselves and do something stupid because they saw it on TV? Of course not... : ANYWAY...I could go through the whole alphabet here **smiles**...I tend to find this same debate no matter what type of online forum I visit because of the simple fact that some people are GOING TO be stupid and blindly follow advice without thinking. That is not my problem, or the problem of those here to offer support and information. (Isn't there an overall dislaimer on the forum site itself that already states that we are not experts?) Sadly - If someone came here and posted that it was recently discovered that Iguanas could be raised as aquatic animals, chances are SOMEONE would give it a try without thinking. That is sad, but we cannot eliminate interactions and communication (info exchange) among those of us who DO think for ourselves simply beause there are dumb folks out there. It is sad for the animals that fall into the care of a keeper who never picked up a book on the subject, but heck; even the books can be wrong...so there is no 100% RIGHT way anyhow. : This whole issue, in my opinion, is a moot point. People will ALWAYS disagree, people will ALWAYS act as they choose, and we can NEVER be sure that something we say (even tiny harmless things) are not going to be translated into something BAD... : But there is no need to stop sharing what you know or exchanging ideas and thoughts with others. : (But of course, there will be some who disagree with me and that is fine too. But seriously, folks - think about it...how can YOU determine what another person does with the info you give them? You can't. And you should not have to.) : ~Shar : (who is now expecting to be dodging the iggy poop) : : Bon.'s mission statement: : : to offer my experience, knowledge, common sense, and opinions on this forum whenever *I* feel i have something of value to contribute ~ be it environmental, dietary, medical, anecdotal, or anything else ~ and to do this in a CIVIL manner ... : : to continue to question people's point of view when it differs from mine IN AN EFFORT TO LEARN from that difference, with the knowledge that NO ONE PERSON IS ALWAYS RIGHT, including myself ... : : even when i wholeheartedly disagree with another's opinion, I WILL REMAIN CIVIL ... : : (Mama always said ~ if you can't say something nice, shut your f***ing mouth ...) : : i will strive to be OPEN-MINDED about all things, acknowledging the basic tenet of life: there are more shades of grey than black or white ... : : ~*~ : : i believe it IS possible to disagree WITHOUT saying to the other person "YOU are Wrong" ... : : disagreement, debates, discussion ... they make us think and help us learn ... : : i would hate for ANY one to feel bad for disagreeing with me or to be wary of disagreeing with me! if we start being afraid of disagreeing, we become afraid of discussing things too ... + then we quit learning altogether! : : ... and we will have ALL failed and we will ALL have lost ... : : last fall, the advisability of my posts concerning medical procedures was questioned ~ : : what IS appropriate to discuss on this forum??? : : are posts discussing medical procedures to be considered taboo?? : : do we have to carefully word every single little thought as if we are potentially talking to an absolute moron??? : : do we have to "disclaim" everything we say: "I am NOT A VET"??? : : are we to stop relying on each other in the ig community for advice, input, and general information??? : : Webmaster Joseph Forks offered this opinion regarding those questions in an email i'd sent him, and i think it applies to US ALL: : : "The IHS has an award named after Josef Laszlo. : : Josef Laszlo was the Curator of Reptiles at the San Antonio Zoo. : : Among Josef's admirable qualities was the willing to take the time, and interest in both the young "neophyte" collectors and keepers and their animals. That patience and willingness made Josef Laszlo one the most admirable and memorable people in my life. Over a decade after his death, his influence is felt daily. : : <big>Now I will ask you, have you gone too far with your advice? : : Can you make a difference in one person's (or reptile's) life? : : Without people like you, these forums would not be what they are. : : Mind you I'm not judging the quality of your content, : : but the fact that you care enough to write about it."</big> : : : : in closing, let me say one more time ~ IGS BEFORE EGOS! : : if *I* feel i have something of value to offer regarding igs, i WILL offer it ... : : and as my conscious sees fit, i WILL offer it ON this forum ... : : i WILL NOT allow another forum member to censor me ... : : and as Mama also always told us: : : <big>"If you can't play nice, go to your room!"</big> : : Bon.

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