...and for those of us who value Melissa's opinions (I do)....

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Posted by Jamie/JBug on August 24, 1999 at 17:36:02:

In Reply to: What Anne had to say posted by Jamie/JBug on August 24, 1999 at 14:38:18:

Jamie wrote: "I forgot to post this url last night, please forgive. I've
been checking it out, and I don't really trust it. What do you think?
http://www.uvheat.com/main.html

"I think your instincts are right.

>From their testimonials page:

"A female crocodile monitor (Varanus salvador) had no Ultraviolet (UV) light
source or dietary vitamin D3 supplementation for several years. The animal
was exposed to a 300-watt flood Active UV Heat bulb for four months at a
ceiling high distance (2.0 to 2.2 meters). "

Even I can do this math: 2 m x 3.281 = 6.56 ft; 2.2 m x 3.281 = 7.21 ft.
They sorta neglected to say how big the enclosure was overall...

Other tip-offs that this ain't for home use (also from their testimonials
page - written by a zookeeper) [emphasis mine]:

According to James Ball's article (http://www.sonic.ne/melissk/j_ball.html)
"Natural sunlight has a much higher UV-B irradiance than most commercial
sources of low-intensity, full-spectrum lamps. The maximum UV-B irradiance
near the equator (solar elevation angle < 25 deg.) under clear, sunny skies,
is about 250 �W/cm�. " Now, remember:reptiles thermoregulate by going in
and out of shade...wherein they are getting less than 250 uM/cm2 at noon,
and more than less than that (if you will forgive my syntax there) during
the rest of the daylight hours.

So, the sun at the equator produces 250 microwhatevers per cmsquared. The
100 watt Active UV Heat light produces

1.6 the amount of equatorial UVB at 4 ft away
2.25 the amount of equatorial UVB at 3 ft away
6.8 the amount of equatorial UVB at 2 ft away
18.0 the amount of equatorial UVB at 1 ft away

I would dearly like to see the research that shows that this is safe in a
home environment - the the reptiles AND their humans - where the lights will
be within 4 ft of the lizards (not a lot of herpers can provide more than a
4 ft clearance above their 6 ft high basking areas, or are we expected to
convert arboreal species into ground dwellers?).

I'd want to see this research for a wide range of lizards and chelonians
typically kept as pets in captivity - no Komodo dragons, please, with lights
placed 4-7 ft away ("In one other zoo both a water monitor (Varanus
salvador) and Komodo dragon (Varanus komodoensis) have been documented with
normal to fairly high levels of vitamin D3 with use of the Active UV Heat
lamp at distances of 4-7 feet away." ) I would also like to know the
long-term effects on bone density of "fairly high levels of D3" on pet
lizards who generally don't weight in at 400+ lbs.

"Consistently there has been a need in reptile ***exhibit*** lighting for a
bulb that could project ultraviolet for some distance (many fluorescent UV-B
lights project over an effective distance of only 12-18 inches). "

"Avoid staring directly into or working under a bulb in use."

Time for minigoggles for reptiles?

"If possible, turn lamps off while working close (3 feet or less) for
extended periods of time."

And a kid who has this in their bedroom does what? Parents with young kids
who like to sit and watch the nice lizard do what? What's the point of
having a light if you have to keep turning it off to be near the damn thing?
Just how long are those "extended periods" anyway?

"Always place bulbs in or above reptile enclosures in such a way that the
animal always has, the option to move out of the direct beam of light."

Define "direct." Exactly how far away from the light does the reptile need
to be to be safe...and why does he need this? To thermoregulate? That
would be accomplished by having a proper thermal gradient set up. Or does
it have to do with the more-than-the-sun-at-the-equator levels of UV?

"Thermal burns should be avoided by placing 100 watt lamps no closer than 18
inches... "

Gee, isn't 18 inches the max distance for a UVB fluorescent that isn't
hazardous to the reptile's or human's health??

"...and 160 watt lamps at a distance of 2.5 to 3 feet away from the reptile.
300-watt lamps should be used at a distance of 3-8 feet away from reptiles."

I'm not overly impressed that zoos use them. Many zoos do a lousy job of
caring for their reptiles. Others provide spacious accomodations - BIG
rooms where they can safely mount these lights far enough from their
reptiles... The last I saw the L.A. Zoo's reptile house, most of the
exhibit enclosures were maybe 3-4 ft w by 4 ft h...even if the 100 watt were
installed flush with the ceiling, the reptile would be subjected to the
light the entire time it was on, there being no place to escape from it
(unless a suitable hide box was provided, which wasn't at the time) during
the hours it was on.

Given that most herpers live in situations where they can barely provide
enough space for their iguana without it being free-roaming, let alone
problems understanding some pretty basic stuff no matter how often it is
reiterated in innumerable different ways to try to create a spark, and the
fact that, given it isn't even mentioned, there is likely no research on the
use of these lights in settings that even remotely resemble a human
household or pet lizard enclosure, I would give these a wide berth, goggles
or no.

--
Melissa Kaplan
Anapsid.org"

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Re: As a monitor person, my thoughts paul 8/24/99 (0)

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Comments:
: Jamie wrote: "I forgot to post this url last night, please forgive. I've : been checking it out, and I don't really trust it. What do you think? : http://www.uvheat.com/main.html : "I think your instincts are right. : : >From their testimonials page: : "A female crocodile monitor (Varanus salvador) had no Ultraviolet (UV) light : source or dietary vitamin D3 supplementation for several years. The animal : was exposed to a 300-watt flood Active UV Heat bulb for four months at a : ceiling high distance (2.0 to 2.2 meters). " : Even I can do this math: 2 m x 3.281 = 6.56 ft; 2.2 m x 3.281 = 7.21 ft. : They sorta neglected to say how big the enclosure was overall... : Other tip-offs that this ain't for home use (also from their testimonials : page - written by a zookeeper) [emphasis mine]: : : According to James Ball's article (http://www.sonic.ne/melissk/j_ball.html) : "Natural sunlight has a much higher UV-B irradiance than most commercial : sources of low-intensity, full-spectrum lamps. The maximum UV-B irradiance : near the equator (solar elevation angle < 25 deg.) under clear, sunny skies, : is about 250 �W/cm�. " Now, remember:reptiles thermoregulate by going in : and out of shade...wherein they are getting less than 250 uM/cm2 at noon, : and more than less than that (if you will forgive my syntax there) during : the rest of the daylight hours. : So, the sun at the equator produces 250 microwhatevers per cmsquared. The : 100 watt Active UV Heat light produces : 1.6 the amount of equatorial UVB at 4 ft away : 2.25 the amount of equatorial UVB at 3 ft away : 6.8 the amount of equatorial UVB at 2 ft away : 18.0 the amount of equatorial UVB at 1 ft away : I would dearly like to see the research that shows that this is safe in a : home environment - the the reptiles AND their humans - where the lights will : be within 4 ft of the lizards (not a lot of herpers can provide more than a : 4 ft clearance above their 6 ft high basking areas, or are we expected to : convert arboreal species into ground dwellers?). : I'd want to see this research for a wide range of lizards and chelonians : typically kept as pets in captivity - no Komodo dragons, please, with lights : placed 4-7 ft away ("In one other zoo both a water monitor (Varanus : salvador) and Komodo dragon (Varanus komodoensis) have been documented with : normal to fairly high levels of vitamin D3 with use of the Active UV Heat : lamp at distances of 4-7 feet away." ) I would also like to know the : long-term effects on bone density of "fairly high levels of D3" on pet : lizards who generally don't weight in at 400+ lbs. : "Consistently there has been a need in reptile ***exhibit*** lighting for a : bulb that could project ultraviolet for some distance (many fluorescent UV-B : lights project over an effective distance of only 12-18 inches). " : "Avoid staring directly into or working under a bulb in use." : Time for minigoggles for reptiles? : "If possible, turn lamps off while working close (3 feet or less) for : extended periods of time." : And a kid who has this in their bedroom does what? Parents with young kids : who like to sit and watch the nice lizard do what? What's the point of : having a light if you have to keep turning it off to be near the damn thing? : Just how long are those "extended periods" anyway? : "Always place bulbs in or above reptile enclosures in such a way that the : animal always has, the option to move out of the direct beam of light." : Define "direct." Exactly how far away from the light does the reptile need : to be to be safe...and why does he need this? To thermoregulate? That : would be accomplished by having a proper thermal gradient set up. Or does : it have to do with the more-than-the-sun-at-the-equator levels of UV? : : "Thermal burns should be avoided by placing 100 watt lamps no closer than 18 : inches... " : Gee, isn't 18 inches the max distance for a UVB fluorescent that isn't : hazardous to the reptile's or human's health?? : "...and 160 watt lamps at a distance of 2.5 to 3 feet away from the reptile. : 300-watt lamps should be used at a distance of 3-8 feet away from reptiles." : I'm not overly impressed that zoos use them. Many zoos do a lousy job of : caring for their reptiles. Others provide spacious accomodations - BIG : rooms where they can safely mount these lights far enough from their : reptiles... The last I saw the L.A. Zoo's reptile house, most of the : exhibit enclosures were maybe 3-4 ft w by 4 ft h...even if the 100 watt were : installed flush with the ceiling, the reptile would be subjected to the : light the entire time it was on, there being no place to escape from it : (unless a suitable hide box was provided, which wasn't at the time) during : the hours it was on. : Given that most herpers live in situations where they can barely provide : enough space for their iguana without it being free-roaming, let alone : problems understanding some pretty basic stuff no matter how often it is : reiterated in innumerable different ways to try to create a spark, and the : fact that, given it isn't even mentioned, there is likely no research on the : use of these lights in settings that even remotely resemble a human : household or pet lizard enclosure, I would give these a wide berth, goggles : or no. : -- : Melissa Kaplan : Anapsid.org"

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