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Not all of us have kids

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Venomous Snake Forum ]

Posted by jared w on May 12, 2003 at 16:11:23:

In Reply to: Not all of us have kids posted by robin on May 11, 2003 at 20:55:47:

So you "handle"venomoids but dont touch hots, strange how being venomoid devalues the entire snake as a whole. Husbandry is an issue, but so are roundups, the skin trade, and venomoids. Many more animals are lost to the skin trade than husbandry issues, especially now adays when almost anyone will take in ill or mistreated herps. Venomoiding is wrong, without a surgical License the technicality of it is that its considered animal cruelty and thus is punishable by law. Again, dont hurt animals just because you need to feel a rush by handling it, if so, try it with a hot. Again, some snakes need trap boxes, others tame down. Each individual animal (despite the traditional notion that they cannot think at all) has an individual personality. And personally, this is a clear issue, people make and sell venomoids because they are worth more money. They devalue the snake, almost to the point its a cornsnake. What message do you convey to others (especially minors and New herpers) when you bust out your venomoid monocle and freehandle it like a cornsnake in front of a crowd. It is unprofessional and sends the wrong message. And I have seen lots of venomoiders (since I have attended every major east coast herp show since 97) and have seen them in a crowd let venomoid cobras chew on there arm?!?! WHAT MESSAGE ARE THEY SENDING? I find it offensive, and you should have more respect for animals of that caliber. As I said in the past if ya want something to pet, there are tons of exceptional nonvens out there, dont devalue these animals to make you more comfortable, that is a personal issue, not the snakes.


: Venomoids are wrong, and personally if ya caint take the heat, dont take a natural defense from an animal to make you feel more comfortable.


:Hi Jared, then there are those of us who's collection is more than 90% hot, and who have a few venomoids. I can stand the heat, I have been standing it for 15 years. I have purchased a few venomoids for the pleasure of being able to handle a species of snake that I have been keeping for years, and have never touched. I will not be taking my collection out to have it "fixed" I am happy with them in their natural state. Just wanted to let people know that there are people keeping both hots and venomoids, its not always an clear cut situation.............Robin

:::I only have an inquiry on the following part of your post:

:::"Sure, it's my right to keep a lion in my house with children if I want, I'll just spend an extra $300 and have its teeth and claws knocked out. The obvious answer is that neither lions nor venomous snakes belong in the house with children. If you cannot house a wild animal safely and humanely, leave it in the wild."

:::At this logic, you should be jumping on almost everyone on this forum, because I would definately bet that most have children and venomous. It is not the fact they are in the same house, it is more a issue of the proper conditions and security measures(IE: seperate secure room, secured locked cages,ect.). As far as keeping animals humanely, I have yet to see a zoo that kept large elephants,girafs,whales, primates,ect in a humane condition. Can they live and be pain free,YES, but is merely stagnating away a life they deserve? NO.



:::::I am so sick of hearing about VENOMOID rants when half of these supposed "legit" herpers rape & pillage wild populations whenever they get the opppurtunity to make fifty cents.

::::I can't say as I know every herper with an opinion, but the ones I do know who oppose the practice of making venomoids are not dealers. In fact it is the dealers who seem to be quite happy to make money on venomoids in the same way they make money on WC imports - by refusing to spend any time or money on proper veterinary care.

::::: Most of these "nosey" non-venomoiders are low-down shady importers who could care less about the health of the animals (or their keepers).

::::All of the importers I know don't really care about the venomoid issue except that they can make more money selling venomoids. Dealers tend to see snakes as scaly dollar signs instead of living feeling creatures, which means they are usually pro-venomoid if anything.

:::::If someone wants to spend an extra $300 on an animal to have it Venomoid that is their right to do so!! It is far better than spending $30,000 in hospital bills & legal fines. What if there are children that live in the house w/ venomous animals?

::::Sure, it's my right to keep a lion in my house with children if I want, I'll just spend an extra $300 and have its teeth and claws knocked out. The obvious answer is that neither lions nor venomous snakes belong in the house with children. If you cannot house a wild animal safely and humanely, leave it in the wild.

::::: You say no VENOMOIDS - I say no wild-caught animals. There are exceptions - rare species & oddball mutations that wouldn't make it in the wild anyways. I guarantee more animals die from being plucked out of the wild than animals being operated on to make them safe captives. I say shame on you for trying to sell that parasite infested crap - leave it in the wild where it belongs & quite making yourselves look like "know-it-all" nazis!!!!

::::I agree; the amount of suffering inflicted on imported WC snakes is horrendous and on a massive scale. Most reptile dealers do not bother treating their animals for parasites, or giving them any real care for that matter. It doesn't matter, they say - the snake will be sold soon anyways. They don't care that the person the snake is being sold to probably won't treat it either, and the animal will die.

::::If I could push a button and make all commercial importation of wildlife stop, I would. I have seen too many infected noose wounds, broken ribs, shattered jaws and snakes literally eaten alive from the inside by parasites. I do what I can for some of these animals on a case by case basis, and I discourage importers from paying the shippers for injured animals. But all that I can afford to do is a very small drop in the bucket compared to the number of sick and injured animals that are taken from the wild for the pet trade.

::::The fact that this suffering is happening on a massive scale still doesn't make it okay to hurt and damage snakes for fun. One evil does not justify another. Some people hurt snakes so they can capture them and sell them for money. I've seen them come in with missing tails, shattered jaws, broken bones, etc. Some people hurt snakes that are already in captivity so they can make more money. I don't see a lot of difference here - in both cases you're inflicting injury on a snake for profit.

:::::I keep both hot & venomoids (10+ yrs.) & refuse to believe that removing the venom glands from an animal is the same as filing down a dog's teeth!!

::::An adenectomy or ductectomy is a major invasive surgery. If you would like to educate yourself more thoroughly on the way the procedure is normally performed with inappropriate instruments and inadequate pain medication, I suggest you discuss it with a veterinarian who has cleaned up after some of the messes left by backyard butchers.

::::: Ludacris comparison. Stay out of others business or someone may aim for your glass house. P.S. Keep your parasite & bacteria infested crap away from my table - yuk!!

::::Um, who are you talking to? I don't think there are any importers or dealers on this forum who are anti-venomoid.



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