You seem to forget...

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Posted by Jaffo on May 13, 2002 at 09:41:45:

In Reply to: I don't read the boards much anymore, but I have a question posted by Tom Townsend on January 11, 2002 at 06:02:02:

I know you didn't direct this response to me, but I felt inclined to reply anyway. Hope you don't mind too much...

"Why is it that when people (I'm picking on your post because it is such a good example) disagree, they feel it is necessary to degrade or insult the person they are in disagreement with?"

>>> Tom, while I agree with you to a certain extent, you undoubtedly can't deny the level of entertainment value we find here on this forum. How many people do you suppose come here with the full intention of getting their kicks p!ssing people off? The posts that are genuine, good-natured attempts at conducting decent discussion are obvious, but so are the ones that are otherwise fishing for crap. To these posts, the replies can and will probably remain appropriate.

"Wouldn't it be much more effective to use facts to support your position rather than insults?"

>>> Absolutely. Now wouldn't it be great if all of the posts we see on this forum were made with such intent? Look at the number of totally stupid posts concerning venomoids. They are the epitome of what you describe. With the percentage of worthless posts that flow through this forum on a daily basis, we have the choice of ignoring this place completely, or sticking around in hope of salvaging worth-while communication and discussion. If you choose the latter, by all means expect to get dirty once in a while. To me, this forum used to be 80% substance, and maybe 20% fluff and stupidity. Today, the fluff and stupidity has taken over. Check out the banter within the last month. It is disgusting, really-- considering how great this forum used to be. But apparently we have lowered the standards of this place to allow our most vocal contributors to be simple-minded fools who lack even basic communication skills or decent knowledge to share. How in the world can you take this stuff seruiously? This forum is no longer the place to expect civilized conduct or education, and far be it for anyone to expect a high percentage of intellectual satisfaction from this place anymore. But I think we can change that...

If you want to change it, start some decent threads with some good intentions to combat the crap. I, for one, will continue to look for the tidbits of truly valuable contributions, while having a little fun at the expense of the morons who should be owning hots in the first place. But first I have a few points to hammer home...

"This person seems to be asking a REASONABLE question and has responded in a REASONABLE way when addressed in that manner. If you have spent any time at all in the swamps of the South, I can assure you that she is telling you exactly what you'd find there..... thousands of Cottonmouths.... maybe hundreds of thousands or millions of them. If we're talking about collecting a few hundred snakes they'd never be missed."

>>> So you are honestly telling me that the apparent "surplus" you contend actually exists is there for humans to profit from? Sure, maybe the population of snakes can handle the pressure, but that doesn't mean I want some dirty, greedy, selfish a-hole out there snagging wild animals without restraint so they can make a cheap buck. I simply do not want to contribute to this, and I sure as hell don't want to encourage it. The majority of the modern herp market is disgusting as it is.

"Following the discussion, I believe this lady is not interested in just the money. It sounds like she'd rather collect and sell (or perhaps give away) the snakes, rather than see them fall victim to the hoe, shovel or shotgun. It sounds like she's got her head screwed on pretty straight to me...."

>>> Really? How convenient for her. Does she have a degree in wildlife management? Do we really trust her to make the right decision for the animals concerned? Who has given her the right to decide that the surplus of animals living in threatened areas needs to be processed through HER facilities? Again, how convenient. I have heard the same argument from just about every "super-collector", commercially motivated "herper" I have spoken to. It is a simple front for a common poacher utilizing legal loopholes who has simple intent to make some cash. I can't accept it. They need to get a real job like everyone else, and leave the live animals alone. Or have you not been disgusted by the amount of sh!tty dealers that exists in the market place now days? Based on the nature of her post, I have no doubt she would have no problem selling these snakes in numbers to the nearest venomoid producer... Of course I don't know for sure. But I have a lot of trouble trusting these folks now days. What's wrong with "herpers" being true naturalists? Why is the commercialization of herps so important recently? Doesn't anyone enjoy field observation anymore?

"Please take note that I did not attack you as a person, make any comments about your language skills, or heritage, and I still managed to make what little point I set out to make.... amazing!"

>>> Well stated, and your point well received. Just remember, it is just fine for you to post in the name of good-natured entertainment too if you want to, but I understand if you don't want to participate in that manner. You can stick to playing nice if you want. But just to let you know, I have a few statements to make at the expense of these silly fools that think they can be representing our hobby without some kind of accountability. If you are comfortable with the pure lack of intellect in so many well-exposed members of the venomous community, then great. But you are a stand-up guy, who carries a good head on his shoulders. Surely you can recognize what really threatenes our hobby... Selfishness, greed, and pure stupidity.

"Have a nice day."

>>> You too man. It is great to see you around here...

Jaffo

Follow Ups:

Ignore the previous..... this is the correct response, thanks. Tom Townsend 05/13/02 (1)
- Excellent Jaffo 05/13/02 (0)
Re: You seem to forget... Tom Townsend 05/13/02 (0)

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: I know you didn't direct this response to me, but I felt inclined to reply anyway. Hope you don't mind too much... : "Why is it that when people (I'm picking on your post because it is such a good example) disagree, they feel it is necessary to degrade or insult the person they are in disagreement with?" : >>> Tom, while I agree with you to a certain extent, you undoubtedly can't deny the level of entertainment value we find here on this forum. How many people do you suppose come here with the full intention of getting their kicks p!ssing people off? The posts that are genuine, good-natured attempts at conducting decent discussion are obvious, but so are the ones that are otherwise fishing for crap. To these posts, the replies can and will probably remain appropriate. : "Wouldn't it be much more effective to use facts to support your position rather than insults?" : >>> Absolutely. Now wouldn't it be great if all of the posts we see on this forum were made with such intent? Look at the number of totally stupid posts concerning venomoids. They are the epitome of what you describe. With the percentage of worthless posts that flow through this forum on a daily basis, we have the choice of ignoring this place completely, or sticking around in hope of salvaging worth-while communication and discussion. If you choose the latter, by all means expect to get dirty once in a while. To me, this forum used to be 80% substance, and maybe 20% fluff and stupidity. Today, the fluff and stupidity has taken over. Check out the banter within the last month. It is disgusting, really-- considering how great this forum used to be. But apparently we have lowered the standards of this place to allow our most vocal contributors to be simple-minded fools who lack even basic communication skills or decent knowledge to share. How in the world can you take this stuff seruiously? This forum is no longer the place to expect civilized conduct or education, and far be it for anyone to expect a high percentage of intellectual satisfaction from this place anymore. But I think we can change that... : If you want to change it, start some decent threads with some good intentions to combat the crap. I, for one, will continue to look for the tidbits of truly valuable contributions, while having a little fun at the expense of the morons who should be owning hots in the first place. But first I have a few points to hammer home... : "This person seems to be asking a REASONABLE question and has responded in a REASONABLE way when addressed in that manner. If you have spent any time at all in the swamps of the South, I can assure you that she is telling you exactly what you'd find there..... thousands of Cottonmouths.... maybe hundreds of thousands or millions of them. If we're talking about collecting a few hundred snakes they'd never be missed." : >>> So you are honestly telling me that the apparent "surplus" you contend actually exists is there for humans to profit from? Sure, maybe the population of snakes can handle the pressure, but that doesn't mean I want some dirty, greedy, selfish a-hole out there snagging wild animals without restraint so they can make a cheap buck. I simply do not want to contribute to this, and I sure as hell don't want to encourage it. The majority of the modern herp market is disgusting as it is. : "Following the discussion, I believe this lady is not interested in just the money. It sounds like she'd rather collect and sell (or perhaps give away) the snakes, rather than see them fall victim to the hoe, shovel or shotgun. It sounds like she's got her head screwed on pretty straight to me...." : >>> Really? How convenient for her. Does she have a degree in wildlife management? Do we really trust her to make the right decision for the animals concerned? Who has given her the right to decide that the surplus of animals living in threatened areas needs to be processed through HER facilities? Again, how convenient. I have heard the same argument from just about every "super-collector", commercially motivated "herper" I have spoken to. It is a simple front for a common poacher utilizing legal loopholes who has simple intent to make some cash. I can't accept it. They need to get a real job like everyone else, and leave the live animals alone. Or have you not been disgusted by the amount of sh!tty dealers that exists in the market place now days? Based on the nature of her post, I have no doubt she would have no problem selling these snakes in numbers to the nearest venomoid producer... Of course I don't know for sure. But I have a lot of trouble trusting these folks now days. What's wrong with "herpers" being true naturalists? Why is the commercialization of herps so important recently? Doesn't anyone enjoy field observation anymore? : "Please take note that I did not attack you as a person, make any comments about your language skills, or heritage, and I still managed to make what little point I set out to make.... amazing!" : >>> Well stated, and your point well received. Just remember, it is just fine for you to post in the name of good-natured entertainment too if you want to, but I understand if you don't want to participate in that manner. You can stick to playing nice if you want. But just to let you know, I have a few statements to make at the expense of these silly fools that think they can be representing our hobby without some kind of accountability. If you are comfortable with the pure lack of intellect in so many well-exposed members of the venomous community, then great. But you are a stand-up guy, who carries a good head on his shoulders. Surely you can recognize what really threatenes our hobby... Selfishness, greed, and pure stupidity. : "Have a nice day." : >>> You too man. It is great to see you around here... : Jaffo

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