Immunity or luck?

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Venomous Snake Forum ]

Posted by WW on September 19, 2001 at 10:30:36:

In Reply to: WI Press:Man lets snakes bite him to show immunity is likely posted by Wes von Papine�u on September 19, 2001 at 10:14:37:

: JOURNAL-SENTINEL (Milwaukee, Wisconsin) 19 September 01 Antivenin crusader - Man lets snakes bite him to show immunity is likely (LAURIA LYNCH-GERMAN)
: Richfield - Calling it his service to humanity, Tim Friede lets snakes bite him as part of his effort to prove humans can be immunized against venom.
: A week ago, the 33-year-old set up a video camera and pulled two cobras from cages in his basement and let them bite. He wanted to see what would happen and whether his yearlong project would protect him from the venom.
: He spent several hours paralyzed, unable to speak or communicate with doctors. But he did not die - he believes because he's been injecting himself with diluted snake venom for the past year.
: "I wanted to see if I could take two big hits and survive," he said. "I did it. I proved that. I've found a way to inoculate and survive."

Sorry Tim, that is just not good enough evidence.

Unless you know how much venom each of these snakes actually injected into you (and not by guesswork, but by actaully *measuring* it), you haven't shown anything. Only a small fraction of cobra bites (~10%) is normally fatal, even if totally untreated. Even with two bites, there is still a pretty good chance that one or both will be dry or involve minimal amounts of venom. As it is, you suffered a very severe envenomation that would have been fatal had it not been for intensive care. There is no way of proving that you would not have had the same narrow escape had you applied a split chicken or got a holy man to chant a mantra for you.

I am not trying to have a go at you, Tim. However, the sad fact is that the same rationale ("I am still alive, therefore the treatment must have worked") has been misused again and again in support of useless or dangerous "treatments" for snakebites, ranging from electric shocks to cryotherapy and Extractors. That logic simply ignores the fact that the quantity of venom injected by a snake is infinitely variable from zero to the full capacity of the snake, and you have no way of knowing what happened in any individual bite.

Cheers,

Wolfgang

Venomous Snake Systematics Alert

Follow Ups:

both Bill 09/19/01 (0)
Re: Immunity or luck? Tim Friede 09/19/01 (7)
- Re: Immunity or luck? Scott Eipper 09/21/01 (1)
  - Cause I'm human,np Tim Friede 09/21/01 (0)
- Welcome back, LUCKY man.... ;-) WW 09/20/01 (0)
- Re: Immunity or luck? Sean P. 09/19/01 (0)
- Damn Tim... Jaffo 09/19/01 (2)
  - Re: Damn Tim... Tim Friede 09/19/01 (1)
    - Re: Damn Tim... tj 09/19/01 (0)
n^1 Chris_Harper2 09/19/01 (1)
- Re: n^31 ? Chris Harper 09/20/01 (0)

Post a Followup

Name:
E-Mail:

Subject:

Comments:
: : JOURNAL-SENTINEL (Milwaukee, Wisconsin) 19 September 01 Antivenin crusader - Man lets snakes bite him to show immunity is likely (LAURIA LYNCH-GERMAN) : : Richfield - Calling it his service to humanity, Tim Friede lets snakes bite him as part of his effort to prove humans can be immunized against venom. : : A week ago, the 33-year-old set up a video camera and pulled two cobras from cages in his basement and let them bite. He wanted to see what would happen and whether his yearlong project would protect him from the venom. : : He spent several hours paralyzed, unable to speak or communicate with doctors. But he did not die - he believes because he's been injecting himself with diluted snake venom for the past year. : : "I wanted to see if I could take two big hits and survive," he said. "I did it. I proved that. I've found a way to inoculate and survive." : Sorry Tim, that is just not good enough evidence. : Unless you know how much venom each of these snakes actually injected into you (and not by guesswork, but by actaully *measuring* it), you haven't shown anything. Only a small fraction of cobra bites (~10%) is normally fatal, even if totally untreated. Even with two bites, there is still a pretty good chance that one or both will be dry or involve minimal amounts of venom. As it is, you suffered a very severe envenomation that would have been fatal had it not been for intensive care. There is no way of proving that you would not have had the same narrow escape had you applied a split chicken or got a holy man to chant a mantra for you. : I am not trying to have a go at you, Tim. However, the sad fact is that the same rationale ("I am still alive, therefore the treatment must have worked") has been misused again and again in support of useless or dangerous "treatments" for snakebites, ranging from electric shocks to cryotherapy and Extractors. That logic simply ignores the fact that the quantity of venom injected by a snake is infinitely variable from zero to the full capacity of the snake, and you have no way of knowing what happened in any individual bite. : Cheers, : Wolfgang

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL:

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Venomous Snake Forum ]