Robot

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Posted by Jaffo on July 14, 2001 at 00:56:31:

In Reply to: Technology is not the enemy. posted by MsTT on July 13, 2001 at 20:56:08:

" As far as I can tell from a historical perspective, the main purpose and goals of Christianity have been to overrun and conquer the globe, and force everyone else to join or die."

>>> Incorrect, but a common misconception. The position you have taken is usually fueled by an emotional and ignorant stance taken against anything labeled "christian" by secular persons who are more interested in personal gratification and will. You have a biased and narrow viewpoint-- much like other religious people have, and are now feeling the need to compete to justify your beliefs.
I don't care, do what you want. But if I see inaccuracies, I'll point them out just to be a good guy.

"You can talk about a loving god all you want, but he looks pretty scary, vengeful and warlike based on the historical evidence of what his followers have done in his name."

>>> Are you an expert on theology and have you studied the bible and the actual history behind it? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds more like you have taken an emotional position, which of course needs no fact.

"If you have a personal relationship with a loving Christian deity, good for you. I don't mind as long as your beliefs don't encourage you to oppress other people or make a mess of the ecosystem."

>>> Actually, I don't. I'm just another "sinner" like you. But the difference between me and you is the level of objective reasoning on my end. I know what I'm talking about. Modern Christians are far from what you describe. Get a clue. I am just a guy who's been all over the place asking questions. I have done way more reading about theology and Christianity and God and even the occult than I even feel comfortable mentioning. I was raised in a Christian home, and live a Christian lifestyle for most of my childhood, and never once did I witness any Christian kill a Native American or even beat up a gay kid. In fact, one of my best friends growing up was a Christian, and a Native American, and we spent a lot of time in the boonies where I taught him everything I knew about nature and animals. Interestingly, we both "fell short of the glory" at about the same time in our teenage years, and he actually introduced me to the "peace pipe" of his modern people. I have to say, getting high on an indian reservation is an experience like no other. My spirit guide scared the hell out of me... (This time, none of that was humor or an embellishment. Take from it what you will.)

"I should be grateful for the way this land has been trashed? Sorry, but I'd give up the benefits of society in a hot minute if it would buy back the unspoiled land and water. But it won't."

>>> So quit b!tching and enjoy what you have. The only obstacle in front of you is your blind attitude. Nobody is oppressing you, especially Christians. Your belief system tells you you're better than the majority, but you're still here living like a modern American.

"I don't live in a cave, but I do my best to use technology in a positive way that helps the environment instead of taking advantage of it without thinking about the consequences and costs. I am far from perfect, but I try to walk lightly on the earth, and I have made fairly major alterations in my lifestyle to avoid supporting some of the modern institutions that do the most damage, eg, cattle ranching."

>>> Commendable.

"Technology is not the enemy, and you do not know me well enough to make any judgements about the way I actually live."

>>> Again, you referred to yourself or ways as "primitive". Your thought process, while articulate and keen, is narrow and indeed a bit "primitive". If that is what you're after, then I guess you've succeeded. You keep saying that I don't know you well enough to make judgements about how you live. Yet you are constantly giving this public forum candid clues about how you live, and making remarks that clash with the image of yourself that you try to portray. You said you mean to live in harmony with nature. You say you abhor the ways of the people who founded this country. You say that the "primitive" and ways of the "natives" were so much better that the oppressive "christian" forces who conquered this land. But you sit behind technological advancement that you wouldn't have had had you remained a "native". I understand you'd give up the internet if we could get it all back. But what about your glasses? By now, if your eyesight is anything like mine, you'd be pretty useless and definitely not qualified to handle venomous snakes. If you are nearing 30 years or so, your life would be almost over. Other tribes may create war with yours, and you could become a slave or simply killed. Disease may have already killed most of your family, and while you may have lived a more harmonious lifestyle, you can't tell me winter was ever a picnic for Native Americans. What happened in this country was a rape of nature, its inhabitants, and its rescources. But it seems to me that if we are to observe Darwinian theory, it was inevitable, and part of human evolution. We are in the middle of that now. The foreign, "Christian" white man that came over and kicked a$$ on peaceful, nature respecting native people were just another larger, stronger tribe in search of new land. Or, liken it to bands of chimps fighting for territory. They're all chimps, buy would you automatically want to be on the side of the underdog? Human behavior is consistant all throughout history. What goes on in the mind of human beings-- including maliciousness, sanctity, and religion, isn't nearly as important as where it takes them. If what happened didn't happen, you wouldn't be enjoying the emenities that you are as an American.

" Beliefs and actions are very different things. I would not care if people wanted to worship swords. I would care if they acted out their beliefs by sacrificing young virgins to their swords. Mutilating snakes is not a belief, it is an action that I oppose because it is cruel and selfish."

>> At least that what you "believe". Killing cattle for hamberger meat isn't exactly a nice thing to do. Neither is feeding rabbits to a python. But it is done, and it is widely accepted, mostly because a large portion of the population "believes" it's OK to do those things.

"Let's face it - there are no "beliefs" about venomoids except, "I want a pet cobra but I don't want to bother making the changes to my lifestyle needed to keep one without mutilating it." That is not a belief, that's just selfish laziness."

>>> It may be selfish and evidence of laziness, but venomoid owners "believe" it to be ethically sound to have the procedure done. It isn't religion, but the word "belief" isn't a religious word. Here, let me illistrate this to you:

"be�lief (b-lf)n.

1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.
2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.
3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons."

( I'm confused.)

" What else is new? Besides, Wiccans are highly disorganized. LOL Depends on which "we" you mean. I can't speak for all the Native peoples of the world, but I do identify with them and have personal reason to know why many of them seriously resent the white man and his in-your-face, join-or-die missionary Christianity."

>>> Fabulous. Now, as a white man myself, I am to feel sorry for what "I" did? I will continue to hang out with and respect my Native Amercan friends, just please don't tell them what I did 200 years ago. PLEASE. Besides, no respectful Christian organization of today is all white, and none of them preach to "join-or-die". They just say, "join-or-go-to-hell". (hehe) Actually, there is a heck of a lot less action with Christians today. Better for you, eh? Must be scary having to run for your life from the marauding Christian oppressors, eh? Whatever. Way back when you would have had to do a lot of running and living in caves for fear you would be burned at the stake. Now, the same contitution that was created by Christian men allows you to practice what would have been considered a "heathen" religion without persecution. What nice guys they were.

" Sure. You can have sex there, too. Just pack out your condoms and cigarette butts, please."

>>> Yes ma'am. By the way, Smokey Bear asked me to tell you that he misses you at Woodsey's parties.

There is no winner in the blame game. Today's modern Christians would never rape and pillage and conquer native peoples. They may invite them to a Sunday afternoon potluck though... But I have known Chirstian contractors who clear land and build apartments and even throw garbage on the ground. But then again, I have known guys of Native American decent that do the same damn thing. The whole human species is guilty at this point. But that's evolution, and you are smack dab in the middle of it. Your whining means nothing to a movement that doesn't listen or stop for whining. You have to be more ACTIVE. Grab an AK-47, and go to church. Tell God what you think of him by taking out a whole flock of the oppressing, evil folks. Yes, YOU can make a difference.

Rev. Jaffo

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Re: Robot...very impressive Jaffo....I like it.....N/P.... m chambers 07/14/01 (0)

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: " As far as I can tell from a historical perspective, the main purpose and goals of Christianity have been to overrun and conquer the globe, and force everyone else to join or die." : >>> Incorrect, but a common misconception. The position you have taken is usually fueled by an emotional and ignorant stance taken against anything labeled "christian" by secular persons who are more interested in personal gratification and will. You have a biased and narrow viewpoint-- much like other religious people have, and are now feeling the need to compete to justify your beliefs. : I don't care, do what you want. But if I see inaccuracies, I'll point them out just to be a good guy. : "You can talk about a loving god all you want, but he looks pretty scary, vengeful and warlike based on the historical evidence of what his followers have done in his name." : >>> Are you an expert on theology and have you studied the bible and the actual history behind it? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds more like you have taken an emotional position, which of course needs no fact. : "If you have a personal relationship with a loving Christian deity, good for you. I don't mind as long as your beliefs don't encourage you to oppress other people or make a mess of the ecosystem." : >>> Actually, I don't. I'm just another "sinner" like you. But the difference between me and you is the level of objective reasoning on my end. I know what I'm talking about. Modern Christians are far from what you describe. Get a clue. I am just a guy who's been all over the place asking questions. I have done way more reading about theology and Christianity and God and even the occult than I even feel comfortable mentioning. I was raised in a Christian home, and live a Christian lifestyle for most of my childhood, and never once did I witness any Christian kill a Native American or even beat up a gay kid. In fact, one of my best friends growing up was a Christian, and a Native American, and we spent a lot of time in the boonies where I taught him everything I knew about nature and animals. Interestingly, we both "fell short of the glory" at about the same time in our teenage years, and he actually introduced me to the "peace pipe" of his modern people. I have to say, getting high on an indian reservation is an experience like no other. My spirit guide scared the hell out of me... (This time, none of that was humor or an embellishment. Take from it what you will.) : "I should be grateful for the way this land has been trashed? Sorry, but I'd give up the benefits of society in a hot minute if it would buy back the unspoiled land and water. But it won't." : >>> So quit b!tching and enjoy what you have. The only obstacle in front of you is your blind attitude. Nobody is oppressing you, especially Christians. Your belief system tells you you're better than the majority, but you're still here living like a modern American. : "I don't live in a cave, but I do my best to use technology in a positive way that helps the environment instead of taking advantage of it without thinking about the consequences and costs. I am far from perfect, but I try to walk lightly on the earth, and I have made fairly major alterations in my lifestyle to avoid supporting some of the modern institutions that do the most damage, eg, cattle ranching." : >>> Commendable. : "Technology is not the enemy, and you do not know me well enough to make any judgements about the way I actually live." : >>> Again, you referred to yourself or ways as "primitive". Your thought process, while articulate and keen, is narrow and indeed a bit "primitive". If that is what you're after, then I guess you've succeeded. You keep saying that I don't know you well enough to make judgements about how you live. Yet you are constantly giving this public forum candid clues about how you live, and making remarks that clash with the image of yourself that you try to portray. You said you mean to live in harmony with nature. You say you abhor the ways of the people who founded this country. You say that the "primitive" and ways of the "natives" were so much better that the oppressive "christian" forces who conquered this land. But you sit behind technological advancement that you wouldn't have had had you remained a "native". I understand you'd give up the internet if we could get it all back. But what about your glasses? By now, if your eyesight is anything like mine, you'd be pretty useless and definitely not qualified to handle venomous snakes. If you are nearing 30 years or so, your life would be almost over. Other tribes may create war with yours, and you could become a slave or simply killed. Disease may have already killed most of your family, and while you may have lived a more harmonious lifestyle, you can't tell me winter was ever a picnic for Native Americans. What happened in this country was a rape of nature, its inhabitants, and its rescources. But it seems to me that if we are to observe Darwinian theory, it was inevitable, and part of human evolution. We are in the middle of that now. The foreign, "Christian" white man that came over and kicked a$$ on peaceful, nature respecting native people were just another larger, stronger tribe in search of new land. Or, liken it to bands of chimps fighting for territory. They're all chimps, buy would you automatically want to be on the side of the underdog? Human behavior is consistant all throughout history. What goes on in the mind of human beings-- including maliciousness, sanctity, and religion, isn't nearly as important as where it takes them. If what happened didn't happen, you wouldn't be enjoying the emenities that you are as an American. : " Beliefs and actions are very different things. I would not care if people wanted to worship swords. I would care if they acted out their beliefs by sacrificing young virgins to their swords. Mutilating snakes is not a belief, it is an action that I oppose because it is cruel and selfish." : >> At least that what you "believe". Killing cattle for hamberger meat isn't exactly a nice thing to do. Neither is feeding rabbits to a python. But it is done, and it is widely accepted, mostly because a large portion of the population "believes" it's OK to do those things. : "Let's face it - there are no "beliefs" about venomoids except, "I want a pet cobra but I don't want to bother making the changes to my lifestyle needed to keep one without mutilating it." That is not a belief, that's just selfish laziness." : >>> It may be selfish and evidence of laziness, but venomoid owners "believe" it to be ethically sound to have the procedure done. It isn't religion, but the word "belief" isn't a religious word. Here, let me illistrate this to you: : "be�lief (b-lf)n. : : 1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever. : 2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief. : 3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons." : ( I'm confused.) : " What else is new? Besides, Wiccans are highly disorganized. LOL Depends on which "we" you mean. I can't speak for all the Native peoples of the world, but I do identify with them and have personal reason to know why many of them seriously resent the white man and his in-your-face, join-or-die missionary Christianity." : >>> Fabulous. Now, as a white man myself, I am to feel sorry for what "I" did? I will continue to hang out with and respect my Native Amercan friends, just please don't tell them what I did 200 years ago. PLEASE. Besides, no respectful Christian organization of today is all white, and none of them preach to "join-or-die". They just say, "join-or-go-to-hell". (hehe) Actually, there is a heck of a lot less action with Christians today. Better for you, eh? Must be scary having to run for your life from the marauding Christian oppressors, eh? Whatever. Way back when you would have had to do a lot of running and living in caves for fear you would be burned at the stake. Now, the same contitution that was created by Christian men allows you to practice what would have been considered a "heathen" religion without persecution. What nice guys they were. : " Sure. You can have sex there, too. Just pack out your condoms and cigarette butts, please." : >>> Yes ma'am. By the way, Smokey Bear asked me to tell you that he misses you at Woodsey's parties. : There is no winner in the blame game. Today's modern Christians would never rape and pillage and conquer native peoples. They may invite them to a Sunday afternoon potluck though... But I have known Chirstian contractors who clear land and build apartments and even throw garbage on the ground. But then again, I have known guys of Native American decent that do the same damn thing. The whole human species is guilty at this point. But that's evolution, and you are smack dab in the middle of it. Your whining means nothing to a movement that doesn't listen or stop for whining. You have to be more ACTIVE. Grab an AK-47, and go to church. Tell God what you think of him by taking out a whole flock of the oppressing, evil folks. Yes, YOU can make a difference. : Rev. Jaffo

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