I finally decided to reply to this......

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Posted by Thamnophile on September 03, 2002 at 02:55:36:

In Reply to: Just thought I\'d chime in here posted by Todd Evans on August 23, 2002 at 16:46:56:

:Hello all....yes, I AM very busy. I got a new job that I happen to start on Monday 08/26.

That's great! Congratulations!

:I am getting married in 3 weeks. I have that pre-marriage counseling thing on Wednesdaqy nights, and will be on my honeymoon for the september meeting. I don't yet have an ISP at home yet, so I am posting this from my fathers PC.

You won't see this for a while yet, I guess, but again, Congratulations on your marriage!

:Ok, enough of the excuses for my lack on communication. To explain MY part of the BU expo, I gave them nothing. I did NOT give them the TSHS vendor list. I KNEW the date of the TSHS show, but did NOT know the date of the second BU show, or I would have informed Nikki of it earlier.....I just found out after reading these posts. As far as I am concerned, BU (minus me) is planning this show. That would be George, Mike, Nikki, and whoever I forgot.....but I AM NOT INVOLVED. The only thing I was involved in was the potential monroeville expomart show in 2004. This show came as a surprise to me as well. I DID know that they were thinking about doing a show, I found out about a month ago that the plans were already underway. I don't want to sound like I am defending myself to the TSHS because I know that this is a free country and that if BU wants to go ahead and do this they have every right to. I DO understand that somebody from the society was to be looking for a new venue for the tshs shows. Well, I haven't found one yet, but then again, I haven't had too much time to be looking now have I?

Ok, so you specifically weren't involved. The only reason why I even mentioned your name was before the prewedding business, you were the most likely member of BU to post here. That's all, and ie doesn't really matter who, anyways. But all of BU was involved in running the TSHS show, presumably because all of BU *wanted to*, and now, all of BU isn't going to be involved in the TSHS shows - because you started your own - and picked a date the same weekend that the TSHS show was supposed to be, had we found a venue. And the problem that I had with *that* was that it was Mike that was supposed to be in charge of finding a new venue. This was decided at the executive board meeting that *all* of BU attended after the regular society meeting.

:I am affraid that the TSHS shows might be a moot point now anyway. I mean like Fred had always told me, this is a VOLUNTEER organization, you can't ORDER people to do anything.

That is very true and it's really lost on me, how you can't understand that. That's just the way clubs are - "volunteer".

:Since for a while there it seemed as though very few people were "volunteering," I say good luck to them in trying to do one of their own. Since I'm not too involved, I don't expect anything from it, just as I had never expected anything but a "thank you" from the TSHS.

You shouldn't even expect that, really - you *volunteered* to do something. Presumably, because you thought it would be fun, or cool, or a good thing to do for the herp community in Pittsburgh. Mostly, it should have been something you wanted to do for one reason or another. No one on the board expects thanks - we are supposed to be there because we want to be.

What you (and all of us - ie. newsletter, etc.)should have expected - and gotten - was *HELP* - which was few and far between. This is the case, however, with everything that TSHS does - fifty plus members, but only about a dozen max that actually DO anything. Many many organizations have these problems, not just TSHS. However, this is a problem that I despair of ever remedying, and I am ready to quit over it myself.

That's another reason why I was upset to see the BU crew "abandoning" the TSHS show, in favor of doing one themselves - obviously they are no longer going to work on the TSHS show.

:If George and Nikki make a few bucks off of this, so be it. But I admit that doing the work involved for something IS a lot better than doing it for nothing (not evan a "thank you")

Why is it always about personal profit to you? For most everyone else in the society - herps are just a hobby - we are in it for the animals and the camaraderie of other people who like herps too - for us the show was only the means to make enough money to keep the club in funds for speakers, newsletters, potential trips, etc. Since that is just *nothing* to you, then maybe you joined TSHS for the wrong reasons. It was never about money before, just animals, people, and education.

This is exactly why I ended up against the shows altogether. It wasn't about the animals, or their health or welfare anymore. The educational aspects faded away, as we struggled to keep the show staffed and running.

:Anyway, I am distanced from BU (for various reasons) and I am very dissapointed in the expectations of the TSHS as well.

"dissapointed in the expectations of TSHS?!?!" And just what is *that* supposed to mean? What expectations did TSHS have? And how did TSHS "dissapoint" you? YOU ARE A MEMBER TOO!!! OR did you disappoint yourself as well - what were *YOUR* expectations? It's funny how when you do something percieved as good, by you, you are so quick to take credit for making those decisions, but when something doesn't go the way you think it should go, suddenly, you are "BU" and the guilty party is "TSHS". I just don't understand. I guess it just doesn't matter anymore.

It might be a while since I can even surface either (my shift is 11AM to 8PM....I'll try to race to the meetings after September, but can't promise anything)

Be still my beating heart! LOL, just joking, but really - first you put down TSHS and then you say you are going to try to make it to meetings? Why bother? And I mean that honestly - if all you have to say about TSHS is bad - why attend - what do you ever get out of it? Actually, I have been asking myself the same questions myself for the past year or two. I suspect that the answers for you and for me are vastly different. At any rate, I'll actually be quite surprised if the society lasts much longer anyways. This latest developement just might be the death blow. Everyone that has been involved is too jaded and disenfranchised anymore, and none of the other members are involved at all. So if you come back, there might not be anything to come back to. That's just my opinion, though, nothing official.

:Anyway, I've said my piece, but not one person should be upset with or even have the right to be upset with the BU crew........they didn't "steal" anything.

First of all, anyone has the right to be upset with whomever they see fit, if they have a *real and legitimate* reason too. And considering that no one from TSHS (including yourself, apparently) was contacted regarding when the next TSHS show was supposed to be scheduled (nevermind that it *was listed on the website*) AND that a member of BU (that was still active) was supposed to be looking for a new venue (had actually *agreed* to do it, BTW), well let's just say that that was enough of a reason for me. Everyone else's opinion may vary, of course.

I wonder what the rest of TSHS would say, if they knew? I haven't said anything to anyone about it, and I am guessing no one else, except maybe Ron (who posted in the original thread), even knows. Oh, well, that really is a moot point now.

By the way, I overheard Mark Henderson from the Enclosure talking to Herb Ellerbrock at one of the Monroeville shows.... apparently PHS is planning a 2 day expo, and Mark is going to help them, to try to get Steve Irwin to attend as a guest speaker.

Let me say that I do *sincerely* wish you guys all the luck in the world - and all the success too. Whatever you guys decide to do, breeding, a store, just shows, whatever it is, I hope it works out for you, and I hope you have fun, most of all.

:In a sense this kinda shows what the TSHS can do without BU around.....which from where I'm standing doesn't look like much.

:Thanks,
:Todd

I'll just let that comment speak for itself, and the attitude and opinions of it's author.

I most likely won't be attending meetings anymore. I'll be at Applejam at Beechwood Farms Nature Reserve on Sept. 28. That may just be the last society function I'll attend (I've always enjoyed the showcases best). Maybe someday I'll make it to one of BU's shows. Not Sept. 22 though, I've got my own showcase going on at Pittsburgh's first Pagan Pride Day in South Park - not only will I be talking about the natural history of herps, but the myth's, legends, and magic involving herps as well.

George, if you read this, you have such vision - I hope it carries you far. If you ever want to talk herps, or even better, dinosaurs :), email me. Have fun, guys.

Cya,

Lisa

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