Re: Warranty on new purchase

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Posted by danya on December 26, 2001 at 22:43:16:

In Reply to: Re: Warranty on new purchase posted by Merri on December 25, 2001 at 22:44:56:

why would they not need a heat lamp if they have a uv bulb? uv bulbs don't provide heat. i would have agreed with your statement on heat rocks in the past, but they have improved greatly in the last few years. They do not rise above a certain temp, and the entire surface is also the same temp. Most people do let their houses go below 60 at nite, around here anyway. We suggest a 75 watt bulb or lower for nite to allow for the dragon to cool down a bit. My bearded dragon doesn't drink from his water dish either, but he LOVES to soak himself. The mealworms are basically for variety. The pellets are not to be a replacement for fruits and veggies. A lot of dragons like pellets. Food should be supplemented with the powder if it is kept under artifcial lighting, the artificial lights don't produce as much uvb as the sun. I'd like to see the study you found though, because my vet says to supplement. As i said, i'd get them AT LEAST a 30 gallon tank, that is enough room until the dragon gets big. We do not keep the active uv in stock because of 2 reasons, no one buys them because the initial price is to high for them, and because half of them get stolen. We offer them as an option and will order them if they want it.

: :lets say someone was getting a bearded dragon. A setup i would sell is: at LEAST a 30 gallon tank (to minimize overall stress of switching environments too many times in the future when it gets big)or large screen cage, 2 heat lights, day and night, florescent light with uv-b, calcium with d3 powder, pellets, heat rock, water dish, food dish, a book, bedding that allows digging, and something to hide in and climb on. We also let them know to feed crickets and meal worms, and fruits and veggies, and give them instructions on how to care for it. We ALWAYS suggest to take a book home and read it first before buying an animal, we will hold an animal for an extra day for them to decide. The reason for them to buy something to climb on instead of going out into the woods, is because many parasites hide inside of wood. Why would you want to bring mites into your dragon's cage and infect him with that? We don't deny anyone a warranty, we will extend the warranty to those who buy neccesities. Of course a food dish is not a neccesity, i never said it was. I said that his would be the set-up that i would suggest. I let the owner of the animal choose what it wants and what it doesnt want.

: I just have a few problems with the above setup. About half the stuff is a complete waste of money. First of all, heat rocks are never a good idea. The chances of them malfunctioning and severely burning the animal, are too great. Also some animals will just sit on a heat rock until they burn themselves. If you really want to mimic natural digestion, you should put a regular, clean, rock underneath their heat lamp. This rock will warm up, but will never reach the excessive temperatures that most heat rocks obtain. Second of all, night time heat lamps are normally not needed. They are only practical for people who keep their house below 60 degrees. Animals should have a cooling off period at night. It more natural and less stressful for them. Third of all, flourescent uvb bulbs used to be the best thing available. However, they are not very effective and do not effeciently mimic natural sunlight. Active UV bulbs have been around for a couple of years and are the best artificial source of sunlight currently available. Of course, in an ideal world the bearded dragon should be exposed to natural sunlight. Also, if you use active UV, you do not need a heat light. Fourth of all, bearded dragons do not naturally have access to standing water. They will rarely drink from a water bowl. Misting them down every few days is much more effective. Fifth of all, what is the point of pellets? If that is in refernce to some kind of prepared diet, there has been very miminal research done on effect of prepared food on reptiles. Sixth of all, calcium powder is pointless. My vet told me about a study done involving the dusting of lizards food with calcium powder. One group of lizards was only fed crickets that had been dusted with powder. The second group was fed crickets that had been fed a diet high in calcium. The third group was fed plain crickets. The researchers found no difference between the rates of MBD in the first and third groups. The second group was the only one that had a significantly lower rate of MBD. The theory is that most of the dusts comes off either before the lizard eats it, or when the lizard actually catches the cricket. I will try to find the study and cite the people who were involved. Also, there is always the possibility of vitamin D toxicity. The best way to ensure that the bearded dragon has enough calcium is to give it access to either the sun or active UV, keep it on a calcium carbonate rich substrate, such as calci-sand or crushed oyster shell, and to put pices of cuttlebone in their enclonsure. Most bearded dragons will happily eat cuttlebone, which is more natural than calcium powder, and there is no risk of vitamin D toxicity. Vitamin D is a sterol that animals produce when they are exposed to ultraviolet radiation, so as long as the bearded dragon has exposure to UV, there is no need to add vitamin D to its diet. Seventh of all, food dishes are pointless. If the bearded dragon is kept on a calcium carbonate besed substrate they can be fed directly off the substrate. If they are kept on another kind of substrate, a tupperware lid works just as well, and at the fraction of the price, of a food dish. Eighth of all, tanks are never good enclosures for a bearded dragon, and an adult bearded really needs more space than thirty gallons. The screen cage is the much better way to go. Ninth of all, the buying of something to climb on, and something to hide in is nice, but not necceassary. The bearded dragon does neat those two things, but there is no point in buying them at a pet store. Any non-toxic branches can be used for climbing. Is is actually better to get something from nature, because you know exactly how it has been processed. The stuff in pet store has often been treated with chemicals that probably are not benefecial to the bearded dragon. A really nice hiding spot can be made by turning a dark, plastic, plant pot upside down, and then cutting a hole in it. This is better than the petstore equivalent for a few reasons. The hole can be made bigger, so that it is always the right size for the bearded dragon. Also, a lot of commercial hiding spots are too light in color to be a hiding spot. A lot of them also have two holes, which is kind of pointless, and most people get ones that are too big for the size of animal they have. Tenth of all, the feeding of mealworms is debatable. Mealworms are almost all shell, and are not very nutritious. Also, bearded dragons have the tendancy to prefer food they do not have to hunt. This can eventually lead to them refusing to eat crickets, which are the more nutritional of the two insects.

: There is a point to this, other than the husbandry of bearded dragons. A person can make a very suitable habitat for a bearded dragon without purchasing most of the things that were mentioned. Just because a person is willing to spend large amounts of money, does not neccessarily mean that they are going to make a good pet owner. A person should not be denied a warranty just becasue they do not give the petstore lots of money by buying pointless stuff. If a petstore is truely not owned by "evil, money-seeking people" , then why would they require that a person needs to spend more money to get a better warranty?

: Thanks,
: Merri

Follow Ups:

Re: Warranty on new purchase Justin 12/26/01 (1)
- Re: Warranty on new purchase danya 12/27/01 (0)

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: why would they not need a heat lamp if they have a uv bulb? uv bulbs don't provide heat. i would have agreed with your statement on heat rocks in the past, but they have improved greatly in the last few years. They do not rise above a certain temp, and the entire surface is also the same temp. Most people do let their houses go below 60 at nite, around here anyway. We suggest a 75 watt bulb or lower for nite to allow for the dragon to cool down a bit. My bearded dragon doesn't drink from his water dish either, but he LOVES to soak himself. The mealworms are basically for variety. The pellets are not to be a replacement for fruits and veggies. A lot of dragons like pellets. Food should be supplemented with the powder if it is kept under artifcial lighting, the artificial lights don't produce as much uvb as the sun. I'd like to see the study you found though, because my vet says to supplement. As i said, i'd get them AT LEAST a 30 gallon tank, that is enough room until the dragon gets big. We do not keep the active uv in stock because of 2 reasons, no one buys them because the initial price is to high for them, and because half of them get stolen. We offer them as an option and will order them if they want it. : : : :lets say someone was getting a bearded dragon. A setup i would sell is: at LEAST a 30 gallon tank (to minimize overall stress of switching environments too many times in the future when it gets big)or large screen cage, 2 heat lights, day and night, florescent light with uv-b, calcium with d3 powder, pellets, heat rock, water dish, food dish, a book, bedding that allows digging, and something to hide in and climb on. We also let them know to feed crickets and meal worms, and fruits and veggies, and give them instructions on how to care for it. We ALWAYS suggest to take a book home and read it first before buying an animal, we will hold an animal for an extra day for them to decide. The reason for them to buy something to climb on instead of going out into the woods, is because many parasites hide inside of wood. Why would you want to bring mites into your dragon's cage and infect him with that? We don't deny anyone a warranty, we will extend the warranty to those who buy neccesities. Of course a food dish is not a neccesity, i never said it was. I said that his would be the set-up that i would suggest. I let the owner of the animal choose what it wants and what it doesnt want. : : I just have a few problems with the above setup. About half the stuff is a complete waste of money. First of all, heat rocks are never a good idea. The chances of them malfunctioning and severely burning the animal, are too great. Also some animals will just sit on a heat rock until they burn themselves. If you really want to mimic natural digestion, you should put a regular, clean, rock underneath their heat lamp. This rock will warm up, but will never reach the excessive temperatures that most heat rocks obtain. Second of all, night time heat lamps are normally not needed. They are only practical for people who keep their house below 60 degrees. Animals should have a cooling off period at night. It more natural and less stressful for them. Third of all, flourescent uvb bulbs used to be the best thing available. However, they are not very effective and do not effeciently mimic natural sunlight. Active UV bulbs have been around for a couple of years and are the best artificial source of sunlight currently available. Of course, in an ideal world the bearded dragon should be exposed to natural sunlight. Also, if you use active UV, you do not need a heat light. Fourth of all, bearded dragons do not naturally have access to standing water. They will rarely drink from a water bowl. Misting them down every few days is much more effective. Fifth of all, what is the point of pellets? If that is in refernce to some kind of prepared diet, there has been very miminal research done on effect of prepared food on reptiles. Sixth of all, calcium powder is pointless. My vet told me about a study done involving the dusting of lizards food with calcium powder. One group of lizards was only fed crickets that had been dusted with powder. The second group was fed crickets that had been fed a diet high in calcium. The third group was fed plain crickets. The researchers found no difference between the rates of MBD in the first and third groups. The second group was the only one that had a significantly lower rate of MBD. The theory is that most of the dusts comes off either before the lizard eats it, or when the lizard actually catches the cricket. I will try to find the study and cite the people who were involved. Also, there is always the possibility of vitamin D toxicity. The best way to ensure that the bearded dragon has enough calcium is to give it access to either the sun or active UV, keep it on a calcium carbonate rich substrate, such as calci-sand or crushed oyster shell, and to put pices of cuttlebone in their enclonsure. Most bearded dragons will happily eat cuttlebone, which is more natural than calcium powder, and there is no risk of vitamin D toxicity. Vitamin D is a sterol that animals produce when they are exposed to ultraviolet radiation, so as long as the bearded dragon has exposure to UV, there is no need to add vitamin D to its diet. Seventh of all, food dishes are pointless. If the bearded dragon is kept on a calcium carbonate besed substrate they can be fed directly off the substrate. If they are kept on another kind of substrate, a tupperware lid works just as well, and at the fraction of the price, of a food dish. Eighth of all, tanks are never good enclosures for a bearded dragon, and an adult bearded really needs more space than thirty gallons. The screen cage is the much better way to go. Ninth of all, the buying of something to climb on, and something to hide in is nice, but not necceassary. The bearded dragon does neat those two things, but there is no point in buying them at a pet store. Any non-toxic branches can be used for climbing. Is is actually better to get something from nature, because you know exactly how it has been processed. The stuff in pet store has often been treated with chemicals that probably are not benefecial to the bearded dragon. A really nice hiding spot can be made by turning a dark, plastic, plant pot upside down, and then cutting a hole in it. This is better than the petstore equivalent for a few reasons. The hole can be made bigger, so that it is always the right size for the bearded dragon. Also, a lot of commercial hiding spots are too light in color to be a hiding spot. A lot of them also have two holes, which is kind of pointless, and most people get ones that are too big for the size of animal they have. Tenth of all, the feeding of mealworms is debatable. Mealworms are almost all shell, and are not very nutritious. Also, bearded dragons have the tendancy to prefer food they do not have to hunt. This can eventually lead to them refusing to eat crickets, which are the more nutritional of the two insects. : : There is a point to this, other than the husbandry of bearded dragons. A person can make a very suitable habitat for a bearded dragon without purchasing most of the things that were mentioned. Just because a person is willing to spend large amounts of money, does not neccessarily mean that they are going to make a good pet owner. A person should not be denied a warranty just becasue they do not give the petstore lots of money by buying pointless stuff. If a petstore is truely not owned by "evil, money-seeking people" , then why would they require that a person needs to spend more money to get a better warranty? : : Thanks, : : Merri

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