kingsnake.com - reptile and amphibian classifieds, breeders, forums, photos, videos and more
return to main index
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter follow us on YouTube link to us on LinkedIn
click here for the Venomous Symposim 2018  
click here for  Animal Specialties
Mealworms, Crickets, Dubia, More...
Available Now at New York Worms!
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: Herp Photo of the Day: Happy World Turtle Day! . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day: Bearded Dragon . . . . . . . . . .  Bay Area Amph. and Reptile Society Meeti - May 25, 2018 . . . . . . . . . .  Suncoast Herp Society Meeting - May 26, 2018 . . . . . . . . . .  ReptiDay Fort Meyers - May 26, 2018 . . . . . . . . . .  ReptiCon Baltimore - May 26-27, 2018 . . . . . . . . . .  Calgary Reptile Expo - May 26-27, 2018 . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - May 30, 2018 . . . . . . . . . .  ReptiCon Oklahoma City - June 02-03, 2018 . . . . . . . . . .  ReptiCon Knoxville - June 02-03, 2018 . . . . . . . . . .  Jacksonville Herp Society Meeting - June 02, 2018 . . . . . . . . . .  All Maryland Reptile Show - June 02, 2018 . . . . . . . . . . 

Re: science?


[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Taxonomy Forum ]

Posted by troy h on December 10, 2002 at 11:47:02:

In Reply to: science? posted by emoneill on December 09, 2002 at 12:53:16:

:First I have to say that I hope you are just mistaken that these "workers" have already decided a priori what their conclusions are. Results lead to conclusions not the other way around. And it sound like they don't have the data yet.

they do have a better selection of data than burbink had. when i said the paper is in the works, i mean the research has already been done and it is awaiting publication. basically, from what i hear, burbink knew that their stuff was in the works, didn't want to collaborate, and published his findings somewhat prematurely in order to get his paper out first.

:Second, what results would suggest that these are a subspecies? I am fine with rejecting these as species, IF THE DATA SUPPORT IT, but that would not make them a subspecies automatically. I recognize that geographic variation exists, but the subspecies concept is outdated and rather difficult to defend.

the simple fact is that "slowinskii" intergrades with emoryi in the blackland prairies. burbink shows a hundred mile gap between populations of "slowinskii" and "emoryi" in northeast texas. no such gap exists.

for example, in college station, you can find "slowinskii"-types, emoryi-types, and intermediates. not surprisingly, Brazos county, TX is about 1/2 blackland prairie (west) and 1/2 post oak savannah (east). follow this line north, and you follow the intergrade zone between these two subspecies or races or color morphs or whatever you want to call them.

the bottom line is that their data show that "slowinskii" is invalid as a full species. if you are the sort that believes that subspecies don't have any validity or usefulness, then just call it Elaphe guttata - which is what the snake is, after all!

troy



Follow Ups:




[ Follow Ups ] [ The Taxonomy Forum ]