Re: Community or Chaos?...

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Posted by wk on September 15, 2001 at 02:07:17:

In Reply to: Community or Chaos?... posted by Gerry Binczik on September 14, 2001 at 09:30:42:

: Ordinarily I don't respond to anonymous posters, but "wk's" perception may be shared by enough forum users (I hope not!) to warrant it:

: "wk", this isn't my forum, and it isn't yours. It is a commercial enterprise owned and operated by a private individual. He certainly has the right to make any rules he wants to concerning its use (this is decidedly NOT a forum for free speech), and he has done so. I and all other users have the right to report abuse of those rules to help him in enforcing them; that's why he has the "Report Forum Abuse" link at the top of every forum page.

: Moreover, many if not most users likely feel that we have more than a right to complain about abuse, but also an obligation to do so. We here are all members of a sort of community, and as such, SOME off-topic chatter is to be expected, maybe even desired. Perhaps this thought is at the heart of your post. But all communities must also have some rules if they are to continue functioning rather than degrade into chaos, and it is the right and obligation of all members of that community to try to encourage or - in the face of egregious abuse such as that which prompted my warning - force adherence to those rules.

: Finally, neither I nor anyone else need your or any other user's permission or good wishes in order to carry out that right and obligation. I filed my first complaint this morning, about the continuing abuse by "T.C." and "Nyx" since I posted my warning. I will continue to complain until the abuse stops completely.

: Again, I urge other forum users to do likewise.
Still, Gerry, I think you miss my point. Once again, I do not condone or agree with any type of hate speech, but I do believe that "in times such as these", people need to have the freedom to express themselves. Despite what you say, this is a public forum, simply because you nor I nor anyone else pays for a membership or the right to post. This is a forum about ratsnakes, but again ratsnake owners aren't somehow oblivious to the events that occur around them. My message is clear, hate speech not included, that people need to express themselves in an arena, be it public or private, in which they feel the most comfortable. To deny that right through threats or other means is to suggest that no ones opinion but yours matters. Again, this sort of reactionary attitude is detrimental, and can only lead to the sort of actions that inspire events such as we witnessed this past tuesday.
Freedom of speech is paramount to the Constituion of this country. Denying it, except for cases in which it could lead to the harm of other persons, tears at the very fabric of the values that each of us take for granted as citizens of the greatest country in the world.
Finally, now that I have made my point clear, you and I can agree on at least one thing. This debate is over. Let's get back to talking about ratsnakes.

: I've made my position clear on this issue, and won't engage in any further debate.

: Gerry

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: : Ordinarily I don't respond to anonymous posters, but "wk's" perception may be shared by enough forum users (I hope not!) to warrant it: : : "wk", this isn't my forum, and it isn't yours. It is a commercial enterprise owned and operated by a private individual. He certainly has the right to make any rules he wants to concerning its use (this is decidedly NOT a forum for free speech), and he has done so. I and all other users have the right to report abuse of those rules to help him in enforcing them; that's why he has the "Report Forum Abuse" link at the top of every forum page. : : Moreover, many if not most users likely feel that we have more than a right to complain about abuse, but also an obligation to do so. We here are all members of a sort of community, and as such, SOME off-topic chatter is to be expected, maybe even desired. Perhaps this thought is at the heart of your post. But all communities must also have some rules if they are to continue functioning rather than degrade into chaos, and it is the right and obligation of all members of that community to try to encourage or - in the face of egregious abuse such as that which prompted my warning - force adherence to those rules. : : Finally, neither I nor anyone else need your or any other user's permission or good wishes in order to carry out that right and obligation. I filed my first complaint this morning, about the continuing abuse by "T.C." and "Nyx" since I posted my warning. I will continue to complain until the abuse stops completely. : : Again, I urge other forum users to do likewise. : Still, Gerry, I think you miss my point. Once again, I do not condone or agree with any type of hate speech, but I do believe that "in times such as these", people need to have the freedom to express themselves. Despite what you say, this is a public forum, simply because you nor I nor anyone else pays for a membership or the right to post. This is a forum about ratsnakes, but again ratsnake owners aren't somehow oblivious to the events that occur around them. My message is clear, hate speech not included, that people need to express themselves in an arena, be it public or private, in which they feel the most comfortable. To deny that right through threats or other means is to suggest that no ones opinion but yours matters. Again, this sort of reactionary attitude is detrimental, and can only lead to the sort of actions that inspire events such as we witnessed this past tuesday. : Freedom of speech is paramount to the Constituion of this country. Denying it, except for cases in which it could lead to the harm of other persons, tears at the very fabric of the values that each of us take for granted as citizens of the greatest country in the world. : Finally, now that I have made my point clear, you and I can agree on at least one thing. This debate is over. Let's get back to talking about ratsnakes. : : I've made my position clear on this issue, and won't engage in any further debate. : : Gerry

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