Re: Why not find out why there are so many coxi males ? One more thought.

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Posted by Walt Deptula on July 28, 2001 at 21:25:19:

In Reply to: Re: Why not find out why there are so many coxi males ? posted by Walt Deptula on July 28, 2001 at 20:50:07:

:
: : Hi there
: : I am wondering about all that writing about the price on aditional coxi males. There is not a word about what actions taken to reduce this strange surplus of males. Clearly we must do something wrong, so I would prefer to hear how you are keeping the females after copulation, what time after shedding you are introducing the male to the female,age of animals used for breeding, humidity and temperature in the incubator during the intire incubation time, and all other conditions that might have an influence in stead of writing and writing about prices.
: : So start writing and share your experiences and information. Maybe there are something you have forgotten or not tried yet.
: : Best wishes
: : S�e

: Hi Soe,

: Funny you should mention that, because I am doing a little experimenting with incubation right now. I will post the results within the next few weeks. KDS would probably not approve but when similar techniques continued to be employed with failed results (high males), I too think experimentation is in order. I also agree that the continued high male counts are indicative that we (all the keepers of coxi) are somehow failing. This harkens back to my argument of why I feel that "survival of the fittest" is not a valid approach in captivity, but I digress. One of two things must be true with regard to high male counts in E.p.coxi. First, we have failed to address any one of a myriad of possible practices which results in abnormally high male sex ratios. Second, that the animals have some reason unbeknownst to us for needing high male counts (garters) in nature. I am betting heavily on choice one, and as such, I have begun to explore possible remedies with regard to incubation temps. While there is no proven temp to sex corallation in snakes, there is some evidence with particular species which seems to suggest at least the possibility of temp sex influence.

: Walt Deptula
:

Just to cover all bases, I should point out that there exists a third possibility for high male counts, albeit a slim one. That is the possibility that we are still dealing with too small a sample size to draw conclusions. Statistical percentages are only valid when the sample size is large enough to offer proof, which it is still NOT in E.p.coxi. Unlikely, but it could still just be coincidence.

Walt Deptula

Follow Ups:

DO YOU GET MY POINT YET?? Blame the 87 posts on.. Walt Deptula 07/28/01 (3)
- Re: DO YOU GET MY POINT YET?? Blame the 87 posts on.. Walt Deptula 07/28/01 (2)
  - a possible test john firneno 07/29/01 (1)
    - Re: a possible test Walt Deptula 08/02/01 (0)

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: : : : : : Hi there : : : I am wondering about all that writing about the price on aditional coxi males. There is not a word about what actions taken to reduce this strange surplus of males. Clearly we must do something wrong, so I would prefer to hear how you are keeping the females after copulation, what time after shedding you are introducing the male to the female,age of animals used for breeding, humidity and temperature in the incubator during the intire incubation time, and all other conditions that might have an influence in stead of writing and writing about prices. : : : So start writing and share your experiences and information. Maybe there are something you have forgotten or not tried yet. : : : Best wishes : : : S�e : : Hi Soe, : : Funny you should mention that, because I am doing a little experimenting with incubation right now. I will post the results within the next few weeks. KDS would probably not approve but when similar techniques continued to be employed with failed results (high males), I too think experimentation is in order. I also agree that the continued high male counts are indicative that we (all the keepers of coxi) are somehow failing. This harkens back to my argument of why I feel that "survival of the fittest" is not a valid approach in captivity, but I digress. One of two things must be true with regard to high male counts in E.p.coxi. First, we have failed to address any one of a myriad of possible practices which results in abnormally high male sex ratios. Second, that the animals have some reason unbeknownst to us for needing high male counts (garters) in nature. I am betting heavily on choice one, and as such, I have begun to explore possible remedies with regard to incubation temps. While there is no proven temp to sex corallation in snakes, there is some evidence with particular species which seems to suggest at least the possibility of temp sex influence. : : Walt Deptula : : : Just to cover all bases, I should point out that there exists a third possibility for high male counts, albeit a slim one. That is the possibility that we are still dealing with too small a sample size to draw conclusions. Statistical percentages are only valid when the sample size is large enough to offer proof, which it is still NOT in E.p.coxi. Unlikely, but it could still just be coincidence. : Walt Deptula

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