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Posted by JKellar on August 03, 2000 at 03:05:13:
In Reply to: Will we ever learn..... The mandarin story posted by Pedersen, Søe on August 02, 2000 at 17:12:26:
I pretty much agree with what you are saying, I myself don't keep wild caught snakes of any kind, plenty captive bred available, don't want to contaminate my collection, etc. but, being the devil's advocate today, if you didn't receive wild caught and thru much valiante effort and hardship no doubt, nobody would have captive bred, same with Gillingham here in the states who I believe produced them around '88, so who decides who get's the wild caught ones?, who gets to attempt to produce them?, who decides when there are enough being produced (they are fairly still hard to get ahold of even at $500) to stop importing WC?
John
P.S. Have you seen the guy who posted down below that he can't get an Asian ratsnake (don't remember species, without looking, maybe Mandarin)to eat, and then the very next post, is the same guy inquiring how to get some other hard to keep alive species? Makes your post very applicable and timely. LOL
: I hear it over and over again. "I just bought a wild caught Elaphe mandarina. What should I do to keep it alive?"
: Why.. why.. why..
: Yes wild captured animals are cheaper.... much cheaper, but there are cb on the market, and their numbers are increasing.
: How many mandarins that are imported over the years into USA and Europe are counted in ten thousands, and how many survives their first year...... Almost NONE. They are always suffering from various parasites, stress and dehydration, and it takes years to get them established into captivity, if ever.
: My story with my mandarins should scare most reptile keepers, AND IT HAD A SUCCESSFUL ENDING:
: An adult pair was imported to Europe in 1981. They were placed in an outdoor terrarium for 2 years, and placed afterwards in a typical terrarium. The bottom was filled with long plastic tupes going from one corner (hot and dry) to the other (cold and moist).
: I didn`t see the animals for several years outside these tupes. They ate only 2-3 newborn rats every year, but looked OK. In 1989 they started showing themself at times at night and began eating a little more. In 1990 they gained a little weight and began eating in the Autum too. Before that it was only just after hibernation. I always hibernated them for 4-5 months very cold, and finally in 1991 I got my first juveniles. WHO HAS THE TIME FOR THAT. Remember the first clutch of mandarins was in 1989 made by Gillingham and Münzenmaier, so there were many trying and trying to brake the key without success.
: Some years ago there were 2 very skilled Asian ratsnake breeders that went to China and brought back about 200 mandarins and moellendorffi. These animals were quickly moved from the wild and into captivity. The idea was that the survival rate should be much higher but even seperately kept, almost all died shortly after.
: The year is now 2000 and there are frequently captive bred mandarins for sale, and still there are imported so many animals to a surtain death.
: This is not only for mandarins, but for many other ratsnakes too especially the Asian ones.
: Do we REALLY want these animals..... Pay the price (I know it is hard I just ordered porphyracea cb`s)or forget keeping them. Don`t experience if you arn`t a very skilled Vet and ratsnake keeper.
: Best wishes
: Søe
