The question of how we look at "relatedness"..........

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Posted by Terry on April 16, 2000 at 10:02:11:

In Reply to: Re: Elaphe taxonomy and the E. longissima question.....(long) posted by Rex on April 16, 2000 at 00:58:53:

Hi, Rex. Thanks for the post. I know my views will be somewhat controversial. I tend to go against the norm. Someday maybe I'll get around to talking about the methods I use to form my opinions in more detail, but for now it's just kinda nice to just toss out ideas we're kicking around. Here's a couple more ideas anyway.

Let's start with tropical forms. They tend to be very different because of serious adaptations due to the very different biomes in the tropics. The "radiata-flavolineata-erythrura-subradiata-helena" group, along with the "oxycephala and friends" group, tend to be at extreme ends of "Elaphe" radiation. The tropics also has caused a big split between the forms that chose a terrestrial lifestyle and forms that chose a more arboreal lifestyle. Radiata and oxycephala are born. But maybe this directioning occured before with taeniura and moellendorffi in the subtropics. This leads to the question, which came first, the tropical, or the subtropical forms. I believe all these species, however, are related to common ancestors.

One line to evolve from the "radiata and others" group, I believe, is the line that includes E. persica and longissima. I understand your view, but too many things point to this interpretation for me. I don't think the other Eurasian Elaphe came from this same line, because they have many more characteristics in common, and are very much like the East Asian schrencki, dione, and bimaculata. We have different results because of our different ways of looking at the problem. This is good. Theories are meant to be improved upon.

One more thing, about Rynchophis, which you mentioned. I have only seen pictures, and have no literature, but I think there's an uncanny resemblance to some Elaphe. Could this be another of those closely related genera? Hobbyists working with this form will have good stories for us in the future. I might try them myself someday.

Keep those ideas flowing, Rex. Taxonomy is one of my favorite topics. T. coxi.

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: Hi, Rex. Thanks for the post. I know my views will be somewhat controversial. I tend to go against the norm. Someday maybe I'll get around to talking about the methods I use to form my opinions in more detail, but for now it's just kinda nice to just toss out ideas we're kicking around. Here's a couple more ideas anyway. : Let's start with tropical forms. They tend to be very different because of serious adaptations due to the very different biomes in the tropics. The "radiata-flavolineata-erythrura-subradiata-helena" group, along with the "oxycephala and friends" group, tend to be at extreme ends of "Elaphe" radiation. The tropics also has caused a big split between the forms that chose a terrestrial lifestyle and forms that chose a more arboreal lifestyle. Radiata and oxycephala are born. But maybe this directioning occured before with taeniura and moellendorffi in the subtropics. This leads to the question, which came first, the tropical, or the subtropical forms. I believe all these species, however, are related to common ancestors. : One line to evolve from the "radiata and others" group, I believe, is the line that includes E. persica and longissima. I understand your view, but too many things point to this interpretation for me. I don't think the other Eurasian Elaphe came from this same line, because they have many more characteristics in common, and are very much like the East Asian schrencki, dione, and bimaculata. We have different results because of our different ways of looking at the problem. This is good. Theories are meant to be improved upon. : One more thing, about Rynchophis, which you mentioned. I have only seen pictures, and have no literature, but I think there's an uncanny resemblance to some Elaphe. Could this be another of those closely related genera? Hobbyists working with this form will have good stories for us in the future. I might try them myself someday. : Keep those ideas flowing, Rex. Taxonomy is one of my favorite topics. T. coxi.

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