My thoughts on the hobby:) Very long!

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Posted by Adam Block on April 14, 2000 at 05:37:38:

OK here I go again, I know I'm going to get hell for this but I'm the type of person that's willing to say what I'm thinking regardless of what others think. I just wanted to know if a lot of other people are thinking the same things and just haven't said it? I know from talking to many of you first hand you feel the same way so if you don't mind speaking your peace, please share.

I'm starting to see that this is a time when new herp businesses (Well, webpages anyway) are popping up every other day. Now as much as I feel that's a great thing as I do remember back to when finding herp information was like selling ice to the Eskimos. I still wonder what the motives behind some of the breeders are. Fifteen or for that matter even ten years ago (Pre-Internet) you knew people were in the hobby for the fun and love of it, as snakes didn't have the same kind of money behind them. Now, it seems money's the sole motivation. Why else would you see people working with snakes nobody wanted before the albinos came out? Why else would you have people selling morphs of $30 snakes for $10,000 plus? Look at that two-headed albino Texas rat (E. o. lindheimeri) with a $30,000 price tag. That's out of control, the motivation behind that is 100% greed or we would have seen that snake in the Zoo with a little plate under it saying "Donated by John Doe." If I found an albino western green rat (Senticolis triaspis) and was going to offer it up for sale (Not that I would being a resident of Arizona) I would never think to ask thousands of dollars for it. I would be proud of my find and would take joy in sharing it with others. Now I would of course ask more for the snake but that's the way things are with anything new, and understandably so or you end up with the under appreciated normal phase and a ten dollar price tag. The trouble I have is with the amounts.

I can't see any morph selling for much over $1000. The reason I say morph is because there are snakes worth much more due to their range, population, availability and so on. But these are animals that are going to hold their price for the same reasons and are not snakes that a lot of little people are going to lose money on by the time the babies get to breeding size while a few people are going to get rich. I just can't see this morph thing doing the hobby any good and that's one thing I wanted to speak out about because to tell you the truth it scares me. We're starting to see a lot less of the normal animals and a lot more of the morphs. As a result I think people are trying to breed snakes that are pumped up and bred at an early age because of the lose in money they will see the following year. So we're seeing smaller snakes, a shrinking gene pool and a lot of inbreeding, I just can't see how that's going to be good for the future of the hobby.

Now I'm sorry this is getting so long but I feel like this hobby / business is going down hill and I think something should be done about it. I have a ton of respect for the people who take time to share what they've learned with others via the forums. People like John Ginter, KJ, John Cherry, Sacha Korell and many others who take hours out of their lives each week to show they care about and love reptiles and want to make sure others succeed. But the people who you never see being helpful, the big breeder you call that gives you the feeling you're wasting their time, I'm sure you all know what I mean (I hear that about one local breeder all the time and I'm sure he has no idea he's losing business because of it). That's what something should be done about and although I'm not sure what it is I feel that if a few breeders get together and work out some ideas we can help bring things back around. Maybe if enough people speak up about these dollar amounts getting crazy or for that matter if we just don't pay it. Maybe if we start some sort of an arbitrator type thing to let the breeders know how the hobby feels or even help with complaints, maybe that would help. I'm sure I'm day dreaming and this is a bunch of wishful thinking but it comes from the heart and is motivated by nothing but my love of snakes.

I always love to hear what others are thinking and a lot of times you bring up points that I just don't notice in my little fantasy land. So please if you don't agree with what I'm saying leave a post (educated, or at least no bashing) and let me know what you're thinking. If you do agree with what I'm saying, again please leave a post. And if you happen to have some ideas on how we can insure healthy pure animals (or at least help the hobby) for our grandchildren feel free to email me at "Vivoraherp@aol.com" so we can hash things over.

Thank you all very much I know I'm long winded,
Adam Block

IMPACT Reptiles

Follow Ups:

Re: My thoughts on the hobby:) Very long! JDM 04/15/00 (0)
My thoughts too..... Pedersen,S�e 04/15/00 (0)
Re: My thoughts on the hobby:) Very long! Sacha Korell 04/14/00 (0)

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: OK here I go again, I know I'm going to get hell for this but I'm the type of person that's willing to say what I'm thinking regardless of what others think. I just wanted to know if a lot of other people are thinking the same things and just haven't said it? I know from talking to many of you first hand you feel the same way so if you don't mind speaking your peace, please share. : I'm starting to see that this is a time when new herp businesses (Well, webpages anyway) are popping up every other day. Now as much as I feel that's a great thing as I do remember back to when finding herp information was like selling ice to the Eskimos. I still wonder what the motives behind some of the breeders are. Fifteen or for that matter even ten years ago (Pre-Internet) you knew people were in the hobby for the fun and love of it, as snakes didn't have the same kind of money behind them. Now, it seems money's the sole motivation. Why else would you see people working with snakes nobody wanted before the albinos came out? Why else would you have people selling morphs of $30 snakes for $10,000 plus? Look at that two-headed albino Texas rat (E. o. lindheimeri) with a $30,000 price tag. That's out of control, the motivation behind that is 100% greed or we would have seen that snake in the Zoo with a little plate under it saying "Donated by John Doe." If I found an albino western green rat (Senticolis triaspis) and was going to offer it up for sale (Not that I would being a resident of Arizona) I would never think to ask thousands of dollars for it. I would be proud of my find and would take joy in sharing it with others. Now I would of course ask more for the snake but that's the way things are with anything new, and understandably so or you end up with the under appreciated normal phase and a ten dollar price tag. The trouble I have is with the amounts. : I can't see any morph selling for much over $1000. The reason I say morph is because there are snakes worth much more due to their range, population, availability and so on. But these are animals that are going to hold their price for the same reasons and are not snakes that a lot of little people are going to lose money on by the time the babies get to breeding size while a few people are going to get rich. I just can't see this morph thing doing the hobby any good and that's one thing I wanted to speak out about because to tell you the truth it scares me. We're starting to see a lot less of the normal animals and a lot more of the morphs. As a result I think people are trying to breed snakes that are pumped up and bred at an early age because of the lose in money they will see the following year. So we're seeing smaller snakes, a shrinking gene pool and a lot of inbreeding, I just can't see how that's going to be good for the future of the hobby. : Now I'm sorry this is getting so long but I feel like this hobby / business is going down hill and I think something should be done about it. I have a ton of respect for the people who take time to share what they've learned with others via the forums. People like John Ginter, KJ, John Cherry, Sacha Korell and many others who take hours out of their lives each week to show they care about and love reptiles and want to make sure others succeed. But the people who you never see being helpful, the big breeder you call that gives you the feeling you're wasting their time, I'm sure you all know what I mean (I hear that about one local breeder all the time and I'm sure he has no idea he's losing business because of it). That's what something should be done about and although I'm not sure what it is I feel that if a few breeders get together and work out some ideas we can help bring things back around. Maybe if enough people speak up about these dollar amounts getting crazy or for that matter if we just don't pay it. Maybe if we start some sort of an arbitrator type thing to let the breeders know how the hobby feels or even help with complaints, maybe that would help. I'm sure I'm day dreaming and this is a bunch of wishful thinking but it comes from the heart and is motivated by nothing but my love of snakes. : I always love to hear what others are thinking and a lot of times you bring up points that I just don't notice in my little fantasy land. So please if you don't agree with what I'm saying leave a post (educated, or at least no bashing) and let me know what you're thinking. If you do agree with what I'm saying, again please leave a post. And if you happen to have some ideas on how we can insure healthy pure animals (or at least help the hobby) for our grandchildren feel free to email me at "Vivoraherp@aol.com" so we can hash things over. : Thank you all very much I know I'm long winded, : Adam Block

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