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Posted by Ratsnake Haven on October 29, 2002 at 19:23:09:
In Reply to: Re: Stinker pic and a question or two... posted by Pierson on October 29, 2002 at 18:18:19:
:You're right about E. carinata being very un-elaphe. First of all, have you ever noticed their pupils? Eliptical! Not to the degree of, say, Boiga, but definitely not round. Also, I have heard that carinata can be ophiophagic! Have you heard of that in any other Elaphe? I think we have another "rufodorsata" on our hands; definitely not Elaphe but classified as such based on convenience. A Duvernoy's gland study would be great. I know some other Indonesian rats (Coelognathus) have pretty well developed Duvernoy's. We'll have to sic BGF on that.
:On another note, have you seen the big yellow book by Jerry Walls on ratsnakes. They have a picture of what I believe to be a juvie E. carinata. It is labeled as a Boiga that was misidentified by importers as E. scalaris. If you have the book handy take a look and see what you think.
:Last but not least...beautiful snake you got there! You need to let the Kavney's use your pic for their ads. Definitely does them more justice. Can't wait to see him as a 6' adult.
Helfenberger, in his recent revisions of the Asian Elaphe, didn't go so far as to put carinata in a new genus, but did say it formed a natural group with E. quadrivirgata and E. davidi. I agree. That looks like it will be a natural grouping. And I think carinata will be removed from Elaphe eventually.
Carinata is ophiophagus, but I don't think that makes them unrelated to Elaphe. They might be a distant relation, but there are other Elaphe that eat snakes (a lot that eat lizards). One of my E. dione morphs (Ukrainian) would only eat baby snakes to start with. Carinata seems to me to be intermediate between Boiga and Elaphe. I think they should be in their own genus.
As far as Duvernoy's glands, I agree. Carinata very well could be one of the ones with Duvernoy's, which means one should be a little careful with being bitten. I haven't heard of any bad bites, however, and the couple I had never attempted to nail me. They are one of the more primitive type ratsnakes, and even though their habitat is temperate, they might still retain the Duvernoy's.
Beautiful picture. Later, TC.
