Hey, DT, I'm back....

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Posted by Terry Cox on October 07, 2002 at 18:55:37:

In Reply to: Re: hybridization question posted by Ophidiophile on October 06, 2002 at 23:01:06:

: And I don't buy the idea American Elaphe are more closely related to Lampropeltines than Asian Elaphe.

:I don't want to get too technical but thus far the data do not support separation (certainly at the generic level) of the North American Elaphe either from the Lampropeltines or Pituophines using the criterion of the biological species concept. Again current data do support their separation from the Asian Elaphe using the biological species concept. The question is far murkier (and may be precisely the other way around) using the evolutionary species concept, but in order to use that concept we need to know what traits are primitive versus derived in the different clades and I'm not at all certain that that's going to be very easy. It's entirely plausible to me that the snakes in America and Asia that are lumped as Elaphe represent convergence due to similar adaptations rather than derivation from a common ancestor nearer than that between American Elaphe and Lampropeltines. DT.

Let's just look at this one item for now. Let me make a supposition. What if the Asian Elaphe, including some of the new genera, such as Gonyosoma, evolved from a common ancestor, and then a little later gave rise to the American Elaphe after crossing into the New World? Then, the American Elaphe could have given rise to the Pituophines and Lampropeltines. That might make the American genera seem more close knit even though the Elaphe had Asian Elaphe ancestors. Just a thought to ponder.

Might you give some further explanation of the Biological Species Concept, also? I am assuming it means that if two species or genera are similar in biological traits that they are probably closely related. Close? Thanks...

Follow Ups:

Re: Hey, DT, I'm back.... Ophidiophile 10/07/02 (9)
- If I remember my Ecology classes right... goyotle 10/11/02 (0)
- Re: Hey, DT, I'm back.... Terry Cox 10/08/02 (3)
  - A thought about genus... Kingmilk 10/08/02 (2)
    - Re: A thought about genus... Terry Cox 10/10/02 (1)
      - Re: A thought about genus... Kingmilk 10/14/02 (0)
- very enjoyable... Kingmilk 10/07/02 (2)
  - I second that ... patricia sherman 10/11/02 (0)
  - Glad you liked it and thanks for your input....n/p Terry Cox 10/08/02 (0)
- Thanks for the info.....NP Terry Cox 10/07/02 (0)