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Posted by James Van Dyke on April 21, 2002 at 16:33:24:

In Reply to: I take that to mean you can't answer my questions..... posted by Lyle on April 20, 2002 at 14:44:06:

Gerry Binczik is the person to ask about population effects on these forums. He has a very academic approach to the problem.

Check out this thread (same subject).

http://www.kingsnake.com/forum/king/messages/29097.html

In my opinion, it seems to be that nothing really affects the Western Diamondback, but there are a number of other species (rattlesnakes, and other organisms) that are affected more. Gassing dens is illegal, but it is still practiced because it is a very difficult law to enforce. Obviously gassing has the biggest affect on other species, besides the possible rodent explosion.

Of course, the big argument here is animal cruelty. Roundups are run differently all over the country and the CNN article about this one clearly states that the snakes are killed by drowining. Some people here think thats not cruel, but I wonder if they've ever been drowned? I haven't either, but I hear from shipwreck survivors in historical documents that its not pleasant. Same goes for beheading the snake- if anybody here has experience their head being chopped off and will tell me it doesn't hurt one bit then I will allow that its not a painful and or cruel experience.

Most snakes are pretty hardy creatures, but starvation and lack of water take their toll on any animal, however slowly. Such close contact with so many other rattlers, of all species, probably isn't good either. Add to this the constant human interaction- hooking, pinning, tonging (word?- lol), holding, kicking, shoving, and just being too close (on the other side of the glass/plastic), and you have a very stressful situation for a wild animal (being gassed probably isn't good either- and they feed these to people afterward??).

If this was a farmed, domesticated species we're talking about, then I wouldn't have a problem with it (happens all the time anyway). But this is a wild animal, and one of the top predators of its environment. Development has already destroyed and separated many populations of snake across the nation. Why make it worse by killing the rest off because they pose a potential (and highly unlikely) threat to people or livestock? The majority of all the rattlers in an area will try to avoid humans and livestock at all cost, the rest are just unlucky enough to cross paths. They aren't trying to kill anything but mice and rats, which is very good for us (especially on farms). They are just trying to do their thing in the ecosystem. Why not just leave them alone?

Follow Ups:

From what I've heard so far Lyle 04/21/02 (2)
- doubt it.... James Van Dyke 04/21/02 (1)
  - Until there is some solid evidence Lyle 04/22/02 (0)

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: Gerry Binczik is the person to ask about population effects on these forums. He has a very academic approach to the problem. : Check out this thread (same subject). : http://www.kingsnake.com/forum/king/messages/29097.html : In my opinion, it seems to be that nothing really affects the Western Diamondback, but there are a number of other species (rattlesnakes, and other organisms) that are affected more. Gassing dens is illegal, but it is still practiced because it is a very difficult law to enforce. Obviously gassing has the biggest affect on other species, besides the possible rodent explosion. : Of course, the big argument here is animal cruelty. Roundups are run differently all over the country and the CNN article about this one clearly states that the snakes are killed by drowining. Some people here think thats not cruel, but I wonder if they've ever been drowned? I haven't either, but I hear from shipwreck survivors in historical documents that its not pleasant. Same goes for beheading the snake- if anybody here has experience their head being chopped off and will tell me it doesn't hurt one bit then I will allow that its not a painful and or cruel experience. : Most snakes are pretty hardy creatures, but starvation and lack of water take their toll on any animal, however slowly. Such close contact with so many other rattlers, of all species, probably isn't good either. Add to this the constant human interaction- hooking, pinning, tonging (word?- lol), holding, kicking, shoving, and just being too close (on the other side of the glass/plastic), and you have a very stressful situation for a wild animal (being gassed probably isn't good either- and they feed these to people afterward??). : If this was a farmed, domesticated species we're talking about, then I wouldn't have a problem with it (happens all the time anyway). But this is a wild animal, and one of the top predators of its environment. Development has already destroyed and separated many populations of snake across the nation. Why make it worse by killing the rest off because they pose a potential (and highly unlikely) threat to people or livestock? The majority of all the rattlers in an area will try to avoid humans and livestock at all cost, the rest are just unlucky enough to cross paths. They aren't trying to kill anything but mice and rats, which is very good for us (especially on farms). They are just trying to do their thing in the ecosystem. Why not just leave them alone?

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