Re: What do you know?

Posted by Dave Beamer on November 11, 1998 at 10:34:42:

In Reply to: Re: What do you know? posted by Ric Blair on November 11, 1998 at 00:34:41:

I agree with a lot of what you say here Ric. Here are a few points
1. A lot of people don't intend eradications but without sound biology that is exactly what can happen. In your pyro example I suspect you are right they are more common than they appear but are not accessible. However if a snake is so secretive it may not need to have large population sizes to persist if it is extremely successful at avoiding predators and lives in a relatively safe microhabitat. I agree that it would take a long time to gather the neccessary data but until that time it is hardly radical conservation to restrict collecting of an apparently rare species. Nobody knows if they are as rare as they seem or not. Hobbyiest though on assumption (and maybe they are right) think if they collect a pair to breed they aren't going to do any harm. This is radical conservation. If you or other hobbyiest have the population details you claim to have then it would be in your best interests to publish them so that they can be accounted for in wildlife management decisions.
2. I am sure many of those responding do have a keen interest in the survival of the species but often times it appears they equate survival of a species with having captive animals or worse put the survival of captive populations at a higher priority than wild populations.
Your permit idea is very much in line with what our state has established that being a bag limit of four per species. I am still very hopeful that more of those posting will contribute to the well being of herps. The more educated you are the more effective you will be. It is apparent that I have spawned a long dialog on the subspecies issue but what is more apparent is that none of the posters have read any of the materials pertaining to this that have appeared in the last decade. I have stated many times that I am more than willing to help with getting these materials into peoples hands.
Dave Beamer

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: I agree with a lot of what you say here Ric. Here are a few points : 1. A lot of people don't intend eradications but without sound biology that is exactly what can happen. In your pyro example I suspect you are right they are more common than they appear but are not accessible. However if a snake is so secretive it may not need to have large population sizes to persist if it is extremely successful at avoiding predators and lives in a relatively safe microhabitat. I agree that it would take a long time to gather the neccessary data but until that time it is hardly radical conservation to restrict collecting of an apparently rare species. Nobody knows if they are as rare as they seem or not. Hobbyiest though on assumption (and maybe they are right) think if they collect a pair to breed they aren't going to do any harm. This is radical conservation. If you or other hobbyiest have the population details you claim to have then it would be in your best interests to publish them so that they can be accounted for in wildlife management decisions. : 2. I am sure many of those responding do have a keen interest in the survival of the species but often times it appears they equate survival of a species with having captive animals or worse put the survival of captive populations at a higher priority than wild populations. : Your permit idea is very much in line with what our state has established that being a bag limit of four per species. I am still very hopeful that more of those posting will contribute to the well being of herps. The more educated you are the more effective you will be. It is apparent that I have spawned a long dialog on the subspecies issue but what is more apparent is that none of the posters have read any of the materials pertaining to this that have appeared in the last decade. I have stated many times that I am more than willing to help with getting these materials into peoples hands. : Dave Beamer

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