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Posted by Ric Blair on November 11, 1998 at 00:34:41:
In Reply to: Re: What do you know? posted by Dave Beamer on November 10, 1998 at 21:05:22:
: I agree that the answers to those questions do not require a degree. I do however suggest that snakes in captivity are different from those in the wild and that while these questions can be answered for snakes in captivity it is probably much different in the wild. I recently attended a conference where this was demonstrated many times with many species. How do you know that the neonates forage underground? How do you know they eat insects, small lizards and small snakes? How did you observe them eating these items if they were underground? I don't know why you think your observations would be shunned by biologists. Have you ever submitted any of your observations for publication in the Natural History notes section of Herp Review? I can hardly imagine them be turned down. You might be surprised how your contributions would be recieved. In addition your observations could then benefit the animals to an even greater extent by facilitating researchers working with their populations. I have never once suggested that hobbyiest have nothing worthwhile to contribute, I do suggest however that they rarely do which is even worse.
: Dave Beamer
I have a real problem writing and also finding the time to do so. I have a full time job, and on top of that take care of over 1,000 reptiles. This is my interest. I do not get grants nor have I been hired to do so. It all sounds very interesting but my life went another direction. I am a tree hugger to an extent. Leave the old growth forests alone, etc. etc. But I know that trees can be grown and harvasred without touching the old trees. However I may need a number of seeds from these trees to make it happen. Most of the people here I am sure feel the same way I do. These guys are not into eradication of a species or subspecies. But their joy in life is very different from your fulfillment. These guys are after the same things you are, but not at the cost of loosing there lifelong dream either. You tell me that if some idiot wants to come up here and collect 30 gopher snakes, then the name idiot is befitting. If you get a guy that wants to come here and catch 5 pyro's from a certain area. Give the guy a permit. It will take him several years to do so. The animals are not rare. There will not be a flood of people up here trying to catch them. But for the ones that want the adventure and the experience that comes with finding one of these animals, let it happen. As far as I am concerned he is expending money and time to do so, and he should not be denied. If the application for capture permits gets too heavy, have a lottery. First find out how many snakes they are really finding first through reporting. If the take is absurdly low, like I know it will be, then collect all the monie's you can and put it toward research and enforcement. Things can always be adjusted to compensate. But you know what. the takers would be few. Most would rather purchase a captive born animal. For those who want to pursue the challenge or dream. Let them try to fulfill it. You see I know that the fortress in which the pyro in Utah lives is impenetrable. And you cannot collect them like Arizona pyro's. This is just an example. And this could be used in some of the proposed regs I have been reading. You are going to find that the people that are responding you, have a very keen interest, in the survival of the species. On the other hand the poachers of turtles and truly endangered animals will not post here. Because he would get flack from your viewpoint and ours. Middle ground within reason is what is needed. Common sense. Prohibition cannot work, so some very good guidelines are needed. I commend those that are putting forth the effort. If these proposals are used to some extent in our State, and I truly know the animal should not sustain great harvest or no harvest, then I am sure we can help in doing what is right. With our knowlege and input, we can make sensible regs. As you can see the people that are writing here are very intelligent and not wildlife rapists. We have the same concerns as you do, but we don't want our passion to be overzealously prohibited if not need be. In most instances the people that are writng here know where the problems are in the wild populations. In most cases the people that are writing the laws do not. Most of the people that are passing the laws have no concept of what is really happening in the wild. But there are a lot of concerned herpers such as myself that do.
