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Posted by TomC on November 10, 1998 at 18:05:08:
In Reply to: Very Serious Flaws With Proposed Guidelines posted by Dave Beamer on November 09, 1998 at 16:09:34:
Dave,
I support your efforts to try and get the hobbyist community to think about what may really be passable legislation but I can't help but feel you are just wanting to banter. I, for one, realize that some of the things we hobbyists seem to insist as fair lawmaking would be too cumbersome or permissive or difficult to enforce. I however feel your posts aren't productive. The same people respond every time (and we are all gratefull to you, you know who you are). I just don't believe you have any intention of ever letting the dead horse die. You just keep argueing and spitting off all this garbage from another new angle about your vast knowledge of legitimate herp biology. Well, that's fine but biologist don't pass laws. Some do enforce them. Legislators pass laws. I would tend to believe that for every biologist or DNR officer there is a herper. This is still democratic nation and we herpers have rights too. Your belief that scientists and scientific date rein as the Godlike forces in this debate is like a worm on a hook. Someone just keeps chomping off a bite and getting hooked. We have legal rights and recourses and this is the Herp LAW forum. As far as impressing lawmakers, I doubt our ability to spit off your requested, useless to most people, info will even matter. This is not just a herptile related issue. Ever heard of homo sapiens? This is a people's rights issue as well, somehting you obviously have a hard time grasping. We believe it to be our right, priviledge and responsibility to keep herps healthy,alive,feeding and rpoducing. We should not be ashamed of any monetary, emotional, spiritual(if you believe in such a thing),mental, even physical (hopefully not sexual but Ryan and KJ make you wonder) benefit from our "hobby". We tend to think we have a right to keep a snake around because "it's there"! Are we to be belittled because we keep the ones that appeal to us asthetically or for any other reason? Are we to be ignored by legislators because we are a bunch of recluses who spend more time fighting and bickering with one another than trying to do something-anything? This could happen but I doubt it. I see alot of peope whose names I have heard for years speaking out for us and defending us against people like you. I tend to come off a little abrasive and I do try to challenge people a little but it's what I do. It is what I am good at doing. You don't challenge people productively. You just wanna be in the spotlight and on the soapbox. What single productive result has any of your ranting accomplished? I defended you and apologized to you for "calling names and being childish". However I regret that I ever somehow sided myself with you (some a-hole sent me this long email about what a sell out I was, and just to clear it up with you, whomever you are, I do support subspecies legislation that allows for only local native protection. I just think it will be difficult to expect a wildlife officer to tell one triangulum for another and was hoping someone had an idea of some kind! Science and academia will be just a small part of what wins the battles big and small for "our side". Enough of me, for now....TomC
"It is certainly not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable: it is with precisely this charm that it entices subtler minds."-Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil
