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Posted by Ric Blair on November 10, 1998 at 23:42:13:
In Reply to: Re: Very Serious Flaws With Proposed Guidelines posted by Dave Beamer on November 10, 1998 at 20:18:59:
: Tom
: I also wish my posts could be more productive. However if interested people such as yourself do not read the works I have referenced there is little I can do about it. Please take the time to become familiar with these issues. I agree that keeping a snake because you like too is a good enough reason. And I do not believe you should have any shame from making money or deriving any of the other benefits you mentioned. This honesty is in my opinion much easier to swallow than all the people who claim to be do it for conservation. As long as those activities do not damage native populations I think it's great. Wildlifes laws are not generally passed by legislators, thank god. If this is ever the case I hope you will be amongst the first to start yelling bloody murder. If the regulations are not going to be passed on sound biology what are they going to be based on?
: Dave Beamer
The problem with biological reserch is that with many animals it cannot be done in a year or two. Sometimes the knowledge is obtained from countless hours and many years being in the field. I find it kind of ironic here that when Utah is going to build a dam or other habitat destroying spectacle they call a biologist in to do the studies. They used one in Diamond fork canyon where there has been a huge population of Utah milk snakes observed over the years. I have seen them in the hundreds, in my field collecting and observations. The biologist they hired could not have made a solid or objective reccomendation. For one thing he did not know the best time to find them. The right barometric pressure, humidity, moon phase and so on. It was conveyed to the contractor, that was striping the land on the sides of the road, and wiping out den sites, that there would not be much harm done to the native reptile population. This paid biologist did a great disservevice to the animals, and to people like me. They wiped out all of the egg laying areas I new of, and trashed some old wooded areas by the sides of the roads where many a snake had been found. I could have told them through my countless treks in the field the density of the animals that they were about to destoy. But I don't think it would have mattered because I did not have a degree. It took me 20 years to come up with what I know about the Diamond fork populations. You know some years the snakes could not be found because the conditions were never perfect. The problem here is that a biologist could never have been alloted the time, nor would he have spent 15 years to know what I know. In a pond situation or a denning situation it could be made much easier. But I guarantee you that the time and the money would never be alloted to put forth the information that I already have. Even with a drift fence, if the conditions are not right you may never find what you are looking for. So without proper funding, long and extensive research cannot be done with most reptiles. It will work in the obviously high profile animals like tortoises and gila monsters, but never to the extent needed in the more reclusive animals that appear to be rare, but are rather more secretive and hard to find. I once heard a biologist make a comment that the animal he was seeking was very rare, as he had not found any in his field work. The other herpers and I had a good laugh later, because we knew what we were doing in the field. And we knew when and how to find what he was not seeing. It takes many years to find out the habits and traits of many reptiles. I believe that the serious herpers such as myself have for more info on population density through observation and being in the field than most biologists can obtain in there perameters. Sometimes I think that a biologist can be more harmfull to a population then he may even comprehend. I have worked with and found ways to treat and cure problems with snakes that veterinarians told was wrong and would kill the snake. Then I run into open minded vets like Dave Doherty in Houston Texas that are willing to listen to other herpers because he knows we have a real to keep our animals healthy. There are things that you learn in the classroom and from others that are your peers, that might not be the best way to conduct research. But oddly enough there is a herper down the street that may know even more because he did his schooling in the field. We need biologists, but we need biologists that can work within a framework that will work for and with the human animal as well. You never know when the guy you are talking to already has a gold mine, and you are telling him how to find gold.
