Competition and digestive clarification....

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Posted by Jeff Schofield on March 24, 2003 at 18:35:33:

In Reply to: Re: Something we may be overlooking here/ my 2 cents... posted by daveboyle on March 24, 2003 at 12:46:13:

:my two cents of this good discussion...
:-I agree size is determined by all the things that everyone has been mentioning: genes, frequency and quality of feeding, health,etc.
:-in regard to the largest snakes being snake eaters, consider this: king cobras and indigos are snake eating specialists living in low population densities that do not have competition for prey items.When there is no competition for resources a species will be able to develop a larger body size based on its genetics. Note that you cannot have a dense population of large king cobras or large indigos-OR introduce a direct competitor that also feeds only on snakes-there are not enough resources to maintain large bodied individuals.Check out the studies that show these animals need a huge home range-its because of resources. Find a good population ecology text, and go out and test it! And what about the snake species they feed upon, what are they eating? Mice and rats are in the equation somewhere and they are directly linked to the issue of a quality diet (you are what your prey eats). How about pines and bulls? They occupy the same/similar habitat as indigos(upland sandy scrub/pine) though typically north and they get to be 8' on a rodent diet. How? genes and specialization in a fossorial niche. It could be that there ARE king populations that follow the same model that specialize in eating snakes but they get so big in the wild because of genes and competitive circumstances, not just because of what the prey item is .
:-I didn't quite follow the "physics" of digestion that snakes are better than rodents. Can someone elaborate?
:-Also, decomposition doesn't occur in the digestive tract, or at least isn't supposed to. That will kill your snake. Digestion breaks down foodstuff using enzymes and pH.

:good topic.
:-dave

Dave, I think it important to note that particularly in southern Florida, they are a snake of the swamp. They have to compete with kingsnakes much more often than they do with pines. Further, I am not convinced that indigos in all areas have that large of a home range but are more or less limited by habitat.(personal experience).
As far as the digestive topic, rats and mice(especially large meals)start to decompose from the inside out while they are in turn being digested from the outside in. Add this to the actual size and shape of a snakes stomach. How many times have you seen a smaller king eat a BIGGER snake? They simply use the stomach to fold the snake as best they can to get it down. Even if a little is sticking out of a snakes mouth for days...they will eventually finish it(a feeding that would be completely impossible if it were eating rats/mice).Snakes dont decompose(and expand)near what rodents do so that addtional "expansion room" can more easily be used for a bigger meal. Does this makes sense to anyone else??Jeff

Follow Ups:

one other point about indigos.... chrish 03/25/03 (0)
Consider this..... chrish 03/25/03 (7)
- But follow my thinking.... Jeff Schofield 03/25/03 (6)
  - Some of the largest colubrids...... chrish 03/26/03 (5)
    - Re: Some of the largest colubrids...... bobl 03/26/03 (1)
      - Last I checked, King Cobras weren't colubrids! /np chrish 03/26/03 (0)
    - one more- meretseger 03/26/03 (2)
      - OF that list only NA rats and pits dont...correllation??n/p Jeff Schofield 03/26/03 (1)
        
        Now the correlation is "many big snakes are generalists".... chrish 03/26/03 (0)