Re: Fred...you need to read what you type..

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Posted by Steve B. on April 20, 2002 at 11:47:28:

In Reply to: Steve..you need to read the fine print........... posted by Fred Albury (Aztec Reptiles) on April 20, 2002 at 03:23:33:

: : Give me a break. Condemning everyone who uses racks and sweater boxes? Dave and Tracy Barker kept all their snakes in opaque wooden cages with no glass window at all when they were in Maryland and might still do. Do you want to tell them that they don't care and appreciate their snakes? You guys have gotten little too full of yourselves. Try coming down here with the rest of us.

: Steve,

:
: I do not know what you are used too, but most people that SERIOUSLY keep Drymarchon do not fit the "Classic" description of your average snake keeper.For one, the snakes are hard as heck to find, fairly expensive, and hard to produce.
: This makes for owners who view their charges diffrently than most snake breeders.

: You sound like you keep snakes other than Indigos, which is great. A LOT of snakes lend themselves REALLY well to being kept in cramped, small, plastic boxes in a heat rack. Kings, corns, ratsnakes,rosy boas, etc etc.They thrive IN SPITE of the care they receive, not BECAUSE of it.

: Drymarchon dont truly fit in this category. I have kept them in LARGE, and I mean LARGE Rubber maid tubs, but it devalues a snake that is as beautifull as an Eastern Indigo, and as ACTIVE as an Eastern Indigo to put it in a tub that barely allows it room enough to get away from its own waste products.

: I think that people nowdays try to "standardize" the keeping of snakes. EVERYTHING goes into a modular rack system, ESPECIALLY if it stays fairly small for life, then it STAYS in a rack system..............For life!
: The racks are all set on the same temp, and in this "rack" the keeper may have:

: Colubrids
: Boids
: Pythons
: Geckos

: All on the same temp gradient, in the same rack. in the same type of boxes, even same substrate

: You can see the error in this.... cant you?
: Each animal listed above has uniquely DIFFERENT enviormental needs. And parameters.

: I am not against useing rack systems, Steve, but what RACK SYSTEMS do best is promote GREED.
: Think about it, if you had to buy nice cages and set them up, would you even have 1/2 of the snakes you MAY have now in your racks. Usually not, it is to expensive and takes too much work.

: People buy racks and fill them with snakes, then buy more racks and fill them with yet more snakes.
: the bible tells us that There is a spirit inside us that is never satisfied, the eyes of a man are never satisfied, no matter HOW MUCH he gets, he always wants MORE.

: Racks systems make this possible in a BIG WAY.
: They also ROB keepers of the abilty to actually OBSERVE their animals behaviours. And make it possible to keep, feed and even breed these animals without really watching them more than a few minutes as you clean cages or transfer from holding box back to rack system.

: Drymachon are active snakes, that require quite a bit of room and are fairly messy. Not exactly "rack material " you might say.
: And they are beautiful and responsive, again...2 things you will never truly witness if you lock them up in Rubbermaid.

:
: I think you are dead wrong, Drymarchon keepers are not "Stuck on themselves". We are an opionated bunch, but then we also didnt go the way of many "Mainstream " herepers, with rack sytems, inbreeding, and hybridizing of our snakes.
: We choose a path of most resistance versus least.
: Rack systems are often the path of LEAST RESISTANCE , meant for people that have large amounts of snakes OR people that CANT stop buying snakes and continue to EXPAND despite the fact that they cant even see or understand what behaviours that their animals exhibit dureing the course of day. They become nothing more than "trinkets" to be stored away and pulled out when the company comes over to show them off.

: These are living, breathing organisms, they deserve the best we can give them. I use Rubbermaid also, but look forward to the day my collection is pared down enough to not have to use ANY. This is what is best for the animals, not exactly "Convenient" for me, but then why does one take on the responsibility of keeping any animal to begin with? Out of convenince?

: Sincerely,

:
: Fred
: AZTEC REPTILES

Fred,
I don't like when people get judgemental. I don't keep Drymarchon in racks as adults. As babies, they do great in a rack.
I take exception to calling people greedy. Some are, but many just want to experience keeping lots of species and they have limited space.
It's you guys who have measured these animals in money. You did say "expensive snakes" and " $1000 animals".
I don't accord my animals any better care or conditions based on what they cost. A high dollar snake is tougher for me to get, but once it gets in my reptile room, it gets the same care as all the other tenants.
I guess I just think judging other people is a very slippery slope. I see that you place many ads on the classifieds. I could say that you treat snakes like used cars. I don't reach that conclusion 'cause I wouldn't rush to judge you.
Don't do that to other people.
Steve

Follow Ups:

Lots of species..............limited space............. Fred Albury (Aztec Reptiles 04/20/02 (2)
- Re: I bred Couperi in the early 90's...why Fred? n/p Steve B. 04/20/02 (1)
  - You are entitled to your opinions, such as they are.......... Fred Albury (Aztec Reptiles) 04/20/02 (0)

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: : : Give me a break. Condemning everyone who uses racks and sweater boxes? Dave and Tracy Barker kept all their snakes in opaque wooden cages with no glass window at all when they were in Maryland and might still do. Do you want to tell them that they don't care and appreciate their snakes? You guys have gotten little too full of yourselves. Try coming down here with the rest of us. : : : Steve, : : : : I do not know what you are used too, but most people that SERIOUSLY keep Drymarchon do not fit the "Classic" description of your average snake keeper.For one, the snakes are hard as heck to find, fairly expensive, and hard to produce. : : This makes for owners who view their charges diffrently than most snake breeders. : : You sound like you keep snakes other than Indigos, which is great. A LOT of snakes lend themselves REALLY well to being kept in cramped, small, plastic boxes in a heat rack. Kings, corns, ratsnakes,rosy boas, etc etc.They thrive IN SPITE of the care they receive, not BECAUSE of it. : : Drymarchon dont truly fit in this category. I have kept them in LARGE, and I mean LARGE Rubber maid tubs, but it devalues a snake that is as beautifull as an Eastern Indigo, and as ACTIVE as an Eastern Indigo to put it in a tub that barely allows it room enough to get away from its own waste products. : : I think that people nowdays try to "standardize" the keeping of snakes. EVERYTHING goes into a modular rack system, ESPECIALLY if it stays fairly small for life, then it STAYS in a rack system..............For life! : : The racks are all set on the same temp, and in this "rack" the keeper may have: : : Colubrids : : Boids : : Pythons : : Geckos : : All on the same temp gradient, in the same rack. in the same type of boxes, even same substrate : : You can see the error in this.... cant you? : : Each animal listed above has uniquely DIFFERENT enviormental needs. And parameters. : : I am not against useing rack systems, Steve, but what RACK SYSTEMS do best is promote GREED. : : Think about it, if you had to buy nice cages and set them up, would you even have 1/2 of the snakes you MAY have now in your racks. Usually not, it is to expensive and takes too much work. : : People buy racks and fill them with snakes, then buy more racks and fill them with yet more snakes. : : the bible tells us that There is a spirit inside us that is never satisfied, the eyes of a man are never satisfied, no matter HOW MUCH he gets, he always wants MORE. : : Racks systems make this possible in a BIG WAY. : : They also ROB keepers of the abilty to actually OBSERVE their animals behaviours. And make it possible to keep, feed and even breed these animals without really watching them more than a few minutes as you clean cages or transfer from holding box back to rack system. : : Drymachon are active snakes, that require quite a bit of room and are fairly messy. Not exactly "rack material " you might say. : : And they are beautiful and responsive, again...2 things you will never truly witness if you lock them up in Rubbermaid. : : : : I think you are dead wrong, Drymarchon keepers are not "Stuck on themselves". We are an opionated bunch, but then we also didnt go the way of many "Mainstream " herepers, with rack sytems, inbreeding, and hybridizing of our snakes. : : We choose a path of most resistance versus least. : : Rack systems are often the path of LEAST RESISTANCE , meant for people that have large amounts of snakes OR people that CANT stop buying snakes and continue to EXPAND despite the fact that they cant even see or understand what behaviours that their animals exhibit dureing the course of day. They become nothing more than "trinkets" to be stored away and pulled out when the company comes over to show them off. : : These are living, breathing organisms, they deserve the best we can give them. I use Rubbermaid also, but look forward to the day my collection is pared down enough to not have to use ANY. This is what is best for the animals, not exactly "Convenient" for me, but then why does one take on the responsibility of keeping any animal to begin with? Out of convenince? : : Sincerely, : : : : Fred : : AZTEC REPTILES : Fred, : I don't like when people get judgemental. I don't keep Drymarchon in racks as adults. As babies, they do great in a rack. : I take exception to calling people greedy. Some are, but many just want to experience keeping lots of species and they have limited space. : It's you guys who have measured these animals in money. You did say "expensive snakes" and " $1000 animals". : I don't accord my animals any better care or conditions based on what they cost. A high dollar snake is tougher for me to get, but once it gets in my reptile room, it gets the same care as all the other tenants. : I guess I just think judging other people is a very slippery slope. I see that you place many ads on the classifieds. I could say that you treat snakes like used cars. I don't reach that conclusion 'cause I wouldn't rush to judge you. : Don't do that to other people. : Steve

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Re: Fred...you need to read what you type..

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