You are entitled to your opinions, such as they are..........

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: : : : : : Give me a break. Condemning everyone who uses racks and sweater boxes? Dave and Tracy Barker kept all their snakes in opaque wooden cages with no glass window at all when they were in Maryland and might still do. Do you want to tell them that they don't care and appreciate their snakes? You guys have gotten little too full of yourselves. Try coming down here with the rest of : : and I too mine. If you continue to try and breed Eastern Indigos, you can advise your potential customers, friends, or people you come into contact with in the manner you see fit on this matter. : I would do no diffrently. I say what I BELEIVE. And this after keeping and breeding these snakes since the late 1980's. The methods I use work for me, and if you are open to hear them may work for you also, if not, then that is your choice. : So many people act like armchair quarterbacks when it comes to snakes, dispensing their"Book knowledge " and having never BRED or even KEPT the snake involved. I am truly GLAD to hear that you are not one of those, and look forward to the day you post the babies that you produce here, we need more people with your level of experience in this hobby. Hope to see pics in the future. : Thanks, : Fred : : : : : : : : : : : : Steve, : : : : : : : : : : I do not know what you are used too, but most people that SERIOUSLY keep Drymarchon do not fit the "Classic" description of your average snake keeper.For one, the snakes are hard as heck to find, fairly expensive, and hard to produce. : : : : : This makes for owners who view their charges diffrently than most snake breeders. : : : : : You sound like you keep snakes other than Indigos, which is great. A LOT of snakes lend themselves REALLY well to being kept in cramped, small, plastic boxes in a heat rack. Kings, corns, ratsnakes,rosy boas, etc etc.They thrive IN SPITE of the care they receive, not BECAUSE of it. : : : : : Drymarchon dont truly fit in this category. I have kept them in LARGE, and I mean LARGE Rubber maid tubs, but it devalues a snake that is as beautifull as an Eastern Indigo, and as ACTIVE as an Eastern Indigo to put it in a tub that barely allows it room enough to get away from its own waste products. : : : : : I think that people nowdays try to "standardize" the keeping of snakes. EVERYTHING goes into a modular rack system, ESPECIALLY if it stays fairly small for life, then it STAYS in a rack system..............For life! : : : : : The racks are all set on the same temp, and in this "rack" the keeper may have: : : : : : Colubrids : : : : : Boids : : : : : Pythons : : : : : Geckos : : : : : All on the same temp gradient, in the same rack. in the same type of boxes, even same substrate : : : : : You can see the error in this.... cant you? : : : : : Each animal listed above has uniquely DIFFERENT enviormental needs. And parameters. : : : : : I am not against useing rack systems, Steve, but what RACK SYSTEMS do best is promote GREED. : : : : : Think about it, if you had to buy nice cages and set them up, would you even have 1/2 of the snakes you MAY have now in your racks. Usually not, it is to expensive and takes too much work. : : : : : People buy racks and fill them with snakes, then buy more racks and fill them with yet more snakes. : : : : : the bible tells us that There is a spirit inside us that is never satisfied, the eyes of a man are never satisfied, no matter HOW MUCH he gets, he always wants MORE. : : : : : Racks systems make this possible in a BIG WAY. : : : : : They also ROB keepers of the abilty to actually OBSERVE their animals behaviours. And make it possible to keep, feed and even breed these animals without really watching them more than a few minutes as you clean cages or transfer from holding box back to rack system. : : : : : Drymachon are active snakes, that require quite a bit of room and are fairly messy. Not exactly "rack material " you might say. : : : : : And they are beautiful and responsive, again...2 things you will never truly witness if you lock them up in Rubbermaid. : : : : : : : : : : I think you are dead wrong, Drymarchon keepers are not "Stuck on themselves". We are an opionated bunch, but then we also didnt go the way of many "Mainstream " herepers, with rack sytems, inbreeding, and hybridizing of our snakes. : : : : : We choose a path of most resistance versus least. : : : : : Rack systems are often the path of LEAST RESISTANCE , meant for people that have large amounts of snakes OR people that CANT stop buying snakes and continue to EXPAND despite the fact that they cant even see or understand what behaviours that their animals exhibit dureing the course of day. They become nothing more than "trinkets" to be stored away and pulled out when the company comes over to show them off. : : : : : These are living, breathing organisms, they deserve the best we can give them. I use Rubbermaid also, but look forward to the day my collection is pared down enough to not have to use ANY. This is what is best for the animals, not exactly "Convenient" for me, but then why does one take on the responsibility of keeping any animal to begin with? Out of convenince? : : : : : Sincerely, : : : : : : : : : : Fred : : : : : AZTEC REPTILES : : : : Fred, : : : : I don't like when people get judgemental. I don't keep Drymarchon in racks as adults. As babies, they do great in a rack. : : : : I take exception to calling people greedy. Some are, but many just want to experience keeping lots of species and they have limited space. : : : : It's you guys who have measured these animals in money. You did say "expensive snakes" and " $1000 animals". : : : : I don't accord my animals any better care or conditions based on what they cost. A high dollar snake is tougher for me to get, but once it gets in my reptile room, it gets the same care as all the other tenants. : : : : I guess I just think judging other people is a very slippery slope. I see that you place many ads on the classifieds. I could say that you treat snakes like used cars. I don't reach that conclusion 'cause I wouldn't rush to judge you. : : : : Don't do that to other people. : : : : Steve : : : : Steve, : : : Rack systems allow people to keep way more snakes than they otherwise would if they had to set up cages for each snake that took into account the snakes needs, natural history and intelligence. : : : As for MY ads, buddy, I sell MAYBE 8 snakes a year over the net that I dont produce myself, usually grudgingly because I have overextendd nyself and want to provide a higher level of care, so I thin my collection down a bit. You see it on the net and I didnt produce it, you can bet you last dollar that I really DONT want to sell it.I dont have to post to sell my Easterns. : : : I have to word this carefully, so as not to be misconstrued by you.... : : : The dollar$ amount that is affixed onto the snakes I mentioned(Indigo) is only one part of their allure, honestly it isnt the money for the majority of us that have done this for 5 years or more, because we make very little compared to what we put out. But, when people pay alot for something, they often go to great lengths to protect their "Investment" and the inverse is also true, that when peoplepay very little for something they tend to disregard its well being as they have little invested. This is a FACT. : : : Good that you take the same care of all your snakes, both rare and common. MOST people dont, and they warehouse them in racks to enable them to get buy even MORE snakes that they can warehouse and it goes on and on and on. : : : You say that baby Indigos do fine in slidebox racks and that is true, wonder if you know this from breeding them yourself. : : : Bottem line: People have their own choice, they can do what they please. I truly beleive that rack systems can be a good thing, esp for profesional breeders with HUGE setups. But frnakly, they lend themselves well to people not haveing a CLUE as to how their snakes act or behave. Something that both Doug, Dean, and myself have observed up close and personal. : : : Guess we arent in it just to make money. lol : : : Fred Albury : : : (Aztec Reptiles)

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