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Posted by Dr. Phil on April 04, 2002 at 16:36:29:
In Reply to: more thoughts Fred... posted by Dean Alessandrini on April 04, 2002 at 15:48:20:
You said it yourself Dean; by lowering temps as low as you do you expose yourself to respiratory complication, such as the one you have experienced yourself with one of your own animals. Yours made it OK, but it could have gone the same way as Fred's buddy's. Most will handle it OK, but it's still a risk. A needless risk I might add. There are too many examples of successful breedings that haven't involved such low temperature exposures, so it truly doesn't appear like a critical factor. Your snakes probably bask a lot just to compensate the exptreme lows they are exposed to.
I figure the good results from one year to another that some of the breeders experience, such as Dwight, is mainly due to the fact that they set up their breeders in large enough enclosures that lie in rooms where the ambient temp is relatively low but with a heat spot that allows the snakes to warm up as they wish, thus basically always having the choice to chose the temp they want. But that set-up also implies one very critical environmental parameter: in such large cages the snakes are never FROCED to endure WARMER temps than they would otherwise try to avoid during the whole process, just COLDER ones, when the heat spots are off at night, and the cages resume room temps, however cold that might be.
But the problem with such a set up is that it's very hard to determine exactly what optimum body temperature range they prefer during the breeding cycle, as you'd need thermometers all over the place in the cage at all times, and keep records throughout the day/night. Or better yet, have one of them internal probes inserted inside the snakes so you can get readings around the clock, so as to find out exactly at what internal body temp the females start moving away from heat sources. From Dwight's experience, his females barely stay under the lamps for a few hours each morning and then promptly retreat to the cooler part of the cages (correct me if I'm wrong here Dwight).
As for photoperiod, I personally am deeply convinced that this is the ONLY environmental trigger the species needs to become sexually active, so I'll agree with Fred on that one. Throughout the years when I've bred them in the past I always kept them at around the same temp year round in a room with a window to the outside, and the both sexes would become horned up year after year right on cue around November, and stop in early spring at the latest. Last year saw an exeption when I had a mating as late as mid May, but then the female just didn't undergo any ovogenesis after that.
I'm sure that from one year to another, it will become apparent that quite a few elements in various breeder's personal recipe will become known to be unnecessary, with just one or two "laws" that will remain, most probably involved temperature extremes to be AVOIDED more than some that should be provoqued. So on that matter it appears that I don't agree with our much revered Fred (sorry Fred! ;o)), as I'm certain breeding indigos consistently year after year has absolutely nothing to do with luck, but everything to do with finding out what to avoid temperature wise. I'm sure the wild indigos don't rely on luck much, and surely breed very sucessfully when then given the chance....
Dr. Phil
PS: Fred, you still have any of those neat canadian garters?
