Re: I will fourth that....

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: The following is my very non-expert opinion, based on my own experience, and is not intended to contradict anyone else's statements, especially if they know more than me, which is just about everyone. : I have a pair of black milks and a black pine. All are '01 and all are pushing 3 feet in length. : The black milks are about 95% black at this point, and are genuinely gorgeous snakes. However, I don't think they are good snakes for outright beginners. For one, they are not particulalry good at killing live rodents in a typical enclosure/sweaterbox, and tend to get chewed up. : Yes, I admit I learned this the hard way. But when I got them, I was a "beginner," and I think it is rather common for beginners to feed live. I have learned the error of my ways and feed only pre-killed now. How's that saying go? Something like "I have good judgement because of experience - I have experience because of bad judgment" LOL : A corn snake, on the other hand for example, is a master of killing (suitably sized) rodents. So are pituophis like black pines. Before I started killing the mice before feeding them to my snakes, I noticed my smaller corn snakes could handle a live hopper almost effortlessly, but the blackmilks, which were substantially larger than the corns, often had a difficult time with hoppers. I suspect they eat a wider variety of prey in the wild than corn snakes do. My black pine is an absolute crushing machine. It is also substantially thicker than the blackmilks, even though they are about the same length. : Anyway, the point is, it is a pretty commmon thing for beginners to feed live rodents, and a pituophis is more suited to this than a blackmilk, in my experience. : The one advantage for a beginner that blackmilks do present is they don't need any supplemental heat, and do just fine at room temperature. They do, however, need some humidity to shed properly, and when they start to come out of blue, I have to lightly mist them daily until they shed. My black pine, on the other hand, has to be at at least about 80 degrees F to digest, or she regurges. : Temperement-wise I favor the black pine a little. The blackmilks tend to be a little on the "nervous" or jumpy side, although not nearly as much as when they were a couple months old. They have calmed down considerably, and I'm told they calm down more as adults. They also tend to hide most of the time. The black pine, conversely, will let you know when it's time to eat, and is quite a bit more active. I have had her follow me from one side of the enclosure to the other as I'm doing things in the room. I know that's just a learned behavior in expectation of food, but the blackmilks almost never come out from under their aspen bedding. She is also totally calm, and deliberate in her movements. She never tries to escape, and by that I mean try to rapidly take off. If I set her down somewhere, she will carefully explore, and even when I go to pick her up she doesn't try to get away. However, individuals vary in temperement, and I don't know where she falls on the spectrum of pituophis temperement. I will say that because of her, I am considering getting another pituophis. : I've never had any of these snakes strike at me or bite. : Here are some pics I took back in December. : <center>Black pine: : <img src=http://www.mindspring.com/~sgarr/snake_pics/Dec_11_01/Blackpine1.jpg> : Blackmilk: : <img src=http://www.mindspring.com/~sgarr/snake_pics/Dec_11_01/Blackmilk1.jpg> : </center>

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