thanks for the compliment and they are unrelated.

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Posted by kealrey on January 08, 2002 at 04:50:30:

In Reply to: Good lookin' animals...... posted by kerry on January 07, 2002 at 22:15:24:

To me its amazing, having not seen one in the wild or knowing specific locality data, that you can name geographical locations as a possibility of origin much like is done with gray banded kings, green tree pythons, banded rock rattlesnakes etc. etc. (and I mean this as a compliment) It has been my experience with other reptiles that have a broad range or a range that occurs through different types of habitats that there is a variation in "appearance" within the same species. Do you feel this is the case with the gila monsters. From what I understand they occur in the Sonoran and Mojave desert areas. And it is also my understanding that these two deserts are different in the flaura and overall appearance.

Honestly out of all of the gilas I possess I can not tell you any original location of the founding stock just what institutions bred them and when but not where their parents came from "originally" etc.

Getting back to the parents. Not that it matters, but the male is a light cream color with a slightly more peach colored head and the female is faintly pink (which intensified when she was grvaid. Is it common to find different colors within the same population. Generally speaking with our herps here in Florida you can isolate some patterns as populations barring of course genetic anomalies.

I was always under the (layman) impression that the male's genetic origins might have been from the more northern range (Utah, Nevada) because of his color and pattern. And when you had said that you had seen other six tail banded gilas in the Utah area it made this seem even more possible. It is interesting to know that this can occur around the more south central Arizona area.

You see I feel this is part of the confusion. When you look in field guides or other literature that documents where the animal was located with the picture. It is hard not to assume that all the animals from that area look like this. And I, like many others that don't live in their range and have seen first hand, have nothing else to go by but this type of literature.

Another interesting observation is that if the appearance of both the dam and sire could be found in the same locale and of their prodigy only 3 of the five bear a resemblence the other two look totally different. Now once again this could be atributed to the fact of what is in their past genetics that might be coming out or other factors.

It would be nice if you could have a chart, much like with gray bands, of different variations and where they all occur, But I somehow don't think this would solve the problem because I am sure that if you bred two from different areas there is a possibility that their offspring would look like either one of the locales or a different locale. The only true way would be through DNA research.

With the alligator snapping turtle for instance, an acquantance of mine here in Florida has done research with pin pointing, through DNA, where the animal originated from. They have been able to break down the range on a genetic level. They can take a blood or tissue sample and tell where the animal originated from. Neat stuff.....

I feel that my approach of a gila is a gila is a gila, some pretty some not so pretty, is the safest way to look at things from a captive perspective. Now if I lived in Utah, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, California, or even Mexico I might have a different approach because of seeing them in the wild.

Thank you for your input and the compliment.

Follow Ups:

Sorry I took so long...... kerry 01/09/02 (1)
- Thanks for the information Kerry......np kearley 01/09/02 (0)

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: To me its amazing, having not seen one in the wild or knowing specific locality data, that you can name geographical locations as a possibility of origin much like is done with gray banded kings, green tree pythons, banded rock rattlesnakes etc. etc. (and I mean this as a compliment) It has been my experience with other reptiles that have a broad range or a range that occurs through different types of habitats that there is a variation in "appearance" within the same species. Do you feel this is the case with the gila monsters. From what I understand they occur in the Sonoran and Mojave desert areas. And it is also my understanding that these two deserts are different in the flaura and overall appearance. : Honestly out of all of the gilas I possess I can not tell you any original location of the founding stock just what institutions bred them and when but not where their parents came from "originally" etc. : Getting back to the parents. Not that it matters, but the male is a light cream color with a slightly more peach colored head and the female is faintly pink (which intensified when she was grvaid. Is it common to find different colors within the same population. Generally speaking with our herps here in Florida you can isolate some patterns as populations barring of course genetic anomalies. : I was always under the (layman) impression that the male's genetic origins might have been from the more northern range (Utah, Nevada) because of his color and pattern. And when you had said that you had seen other six tail banded gilas in the Utah area it made this seem even more possible. It is interesting to know that this can occur around the more south central Arizona area. : You see I feel this is part of the confusion. When you look in field guides or other literature that documents where the animal was located with the picture. It is hard not to assume that all the animals from that area look like this. And I, like many others that don't live in their range and have seen first hand, have nothing else to go by but this type of literature. : Another interesting observation is that if the appearance of both the dam and sire could be found in the same locale and of their prodigy only 3 of the five bear a resemblence the other two look totally different. Now once again this could be atributed to the fact of what is in their past genetics that might be coming out or other factors. : It would be nice if you could have a chart, much like with gray bands, of different variations and where they all occur, But I somehow don't think this would solve the problem because I am sure that if you bred two from different areas there is a possibility that their offspring would look like either one of the locales or a different locale. The only true way would be through DNA research. : With the alligator snapping turtle for instance, an acquantance of mine here in Florida has done research with pin pointing, through DNA, where the animal originated from. They have been able to break down the range on a genetic level. They can take a blood or tissue sample and tell where the animal originated from. Neat stuff..... : I feel that my approach of a gila is a gila is a gila, some pretty some not so pretty, is the safest way to look at things from a captive perspective. Now if I lived in Utah, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, California, or even Mexico I might have a different approach because of seeing them in the wild. : Thank you for your input and the compliment.

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