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that's what I got out of the post to and

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Posted by herpetological on May 14, 2003 at 12:10:04:

In Reply to: that's what I got out of the post to and posted by mchambers on May 14, 2003 at 10:18:18:

:it reminds me of where I live in Kansas. There are and gotta be some commercial collectors still hitting Kansas for milksnakes heavy and hard. This might also include collared lizards. But where on earth does these animals end up at ? Since I only still get a very few price list , I ask others that DO get price list from companies and both of these metioned animals are lacking on most of these list. Are they trading among each other ( keepers ) for other species from other states ? I DO know of several instances where this has happened in the very recent past. But we are in a dilemma in that ranchers out here are blaming herp people for taking things from old abandon farm houses, old churches, even a little cattle rustling. it's no fun when there is a farmer/rancher having his rifle gunsights on you when all you are doing is lifting some rocks. This has happened several times to me in the flint hills proper. This is a reason that I get a big fat NO on trying to obtain permit to cross over the fence line. Latley though I have been a little more succesful with camera in hand ( since that is all I do now like Joe was saying ) and being 54 yeras old and having a very few people with me.

:M Chambers


::it sucks (IMHO) to see people collecting like that.

::I used to collect a lot, when I was younger and didn't
::know any better. Now I'm happy to take only pictures. The
::pleasure is in seeing the animals in the wild. Yes, I collect
::a few animals, maybe in the range of a 2 or 3 per year. I
::feel that is sustainable harvest for the animals I collect.
::But then again, if EVERYONE did the same, maybe that small
::number is even too much.

::I certainly understand the point he is trying to make, but
::maybe he is making it from the wrong side of the fence (IMO).

:If you think I'm bragging well that's your choice. I'm not. I can a least keep in mind the reason I got into herps to begin with. My love and appreciation for them. The problem only starts when people forget this and see dollar signs. I simply was pointing out the fact that many of todays collectors do not either understand or have the skills to collect a FEW specimens from an area.Many destroy the habitat so that is useless for both the specimens or the collectors. Also, you must understand the species you are working with and the actual population densities. This varies area to area. Quite true that 2-3 a year for a particular species may be too much. Back to the bragging comment.. If you only knew... it's not tough and I can still leave anything that I not comfortable with taking. About 75% of what I do take is introduced exotics. Be nasty and threatened if you must but, It won't bother me. This is tiring. I was just trying to wake a few people up and maybe they would think twice before completely destroying a spot or overcollecting an area. Greed is an easy habit to fall into. Thanks Ray HBR

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