Re: Iguanas with a 4.0 GPA...or dumb as rocks?....(long but fun)

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Posted by MichelleB on November 05, 2002 at 08:33:15:

In Reply to: Iguanas with a 4.0 GPA...or dumb as rocks?....(long but fun) posted by IGUANA JOE on November 03, 2002 at 23:43:30:

What a fun topic. I don't know if iguanas are the smartest four legged reptile, because I have not owned some of the other popular "smart" species mentioned, like tegus or monitors. But I have seen signs of real intelligence in my iguanas. Although our iguana JJ knows everyone in the family and is friendly, she *KNOWS* I am the food lady! She will sit in her cage all day oblivious to the fact that my husband is watching TV nearby... but when I walk in the room, she zeros her gaze in on me! Not only that, but if I sit down and try to ignore her, she will look from me to her food plate and back to me again! That is pretty good communication for a "dumb" animal. They also can be trained to a certain degree. Mine is so potty trained, that if I am out all day, and don't get in until after her lights are off, she will hold it until the next day! (Thank goodness that is a very rare occurance.) I had one iguana that knew the floorplan of my apartment, and when let out of his cage, he made a beeline for the shower to do his buisiness. (I also once had a box turtle that knew the layout of our house, and after he ate in the kitchen, would head down the long hallway to my bedroom where he lived!) I liked the comments someone made about iguanas holding a grudge! I think we all can agree that is a true statement, and shows some amount of intelligence. Holding a grudge goes beyond basic emotions like anger, fear, etc. into what would seem like an actual processing of information.

Of course they do some pretty silly things too, like the iguana I had that would flip out and attack anyone wearing a black hat! If the same person came back without the hat, SJ was cool. There's also the feeding frenzy that our JJ can get into. Sometimes when I offer her favorite foods, like banana or bread (only as treats, and sparingly) she will get so excited while eating that nothing in the vicinity is safe... my fingers, my nose, the dogs nose, etc. It is hilarious to see, too, because as I pull away to avoide a bite, she stretches to follow, with her mouth wide open, and her tounge stretched out! Maybe some would call this stupid, but I think it's loveable!

:I've noticed this happy forum has gotten kinda slow...if not a little boring (no offense to those who posted in the last week) lately.
:Nothing too controversial, or debateable... and the posts have been kinda low in numbers. So I thought I'd throw this topic on board and see the reaction and hopefully bring back some liveliness ;)

:Are our beloved iguanas the most intelligent four-legged reptiles? Or are they dumb as bull ****?

:So far, it is thought far and wide that monitor lizards are the true "smart @$$es" in the reptile realm. The species most commonly referred to are mangroves and argus (though now I believe it has been changed to another name). Even salvadorii and others are up there with Einstein-like IQs.

:But then we have Tegu afecionados who say the opposite, that tegus are far more intelligent, monitors are all brawn and no brains, and more trainable than the varandids. The best teiid mentioned is the Arg. Black n white.
:But when compared, stories of varanid and teiid intelligence seem to be fairly familiar. Potty-training, recognition, habit, tameness, etc...

:(As a sidenote, some turtles have been proven to be trainable as well... but not much have been said or these fellas.)

:Those who may have the strongest case are the crocodilian folks. After all, the crocl's have survived millions of years, and evolved for just as long...so something must be ticking right in that titanum-like skull.
:"...of a crocodilian total mass, slightly less than 1% will be brain tissue in a hatchling, while...in an adult...less than 0.01% of total body mass..."
:"...the crocodilian brain has a much higher capacity to learn and shows more complex beahvior than any other reptile..."
:"...the high neuron density...compensates for its relatively small size...".
:(C. Dieter: The Ultimate Guide to Crocodilinas in Captivity)
:Cool uh? By the way, that's a great book to grab if u like these majestic animals.

:And now us iguanids owners...or former owners...
:On Hatfield's book:
:"...researchers discovered that this species is capable of distinguishing between two complementary colors...as well as test pairs...and similar patterns...Such acquired knowledge was retained for up to 5 months...". And there are countless stories of iguanas seeking out their owners, remembering people they dislike, etc.

:Yet among us iguana folks, there's a small feud of which iguana is the best and smartest: green, ctenosaura, or cyclura? (ok, even the little dipso's). Both cteno and cyclura people say theirs are smarter and more complex in beahvior than greens.

:
:And so, what do you people think? Investigate a bit the oher species, think thoroughly and reply. I'm interested to know your opinions, and to get things going a bit! lol

:I personally, to the risk of being kicked outta here, may go with the crocs, particuratly the American Alligator. If crocs were as "domesticable" and doggy-tame as our iguanas, monitors, and tegus... the whole Herp hobby will be different. We're talking millions of years of evo!
:The problem with truly seeing the bright (as in smart) side of crocs is their pure predatory drive to put anyone and anything in their lovely jaws.

:Let's all remember that both orders: squamata(saurians) and crocodylia are REPTILES, not mammals, so let's keep a balance with anthropomorphisim ok?

:Here's my curve ball, you're all invited to take a swing at it.

:-IJ

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