Re: OK -a possible solution , way to intrusive as always......

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Posted by m chambers on May 12, 2001 at 10:08:40:

In Reply to: OK -a possible solution to the petstore controversies posted by Sharon on May 11, 2001 at 15:04:07:

before I read down on other post......once you get an intrusive law/regulation in motion then it creates problems for the general puplic. Wichita Ks. had a city ordinance passed on the sale of reptiles in pet stores that came back on the populance of the city. Where would the regulation/permit situation stop ? So what you are saying is if a kid wants a $2.99 chameoleon (Anolis carolinesis or Anole) he should have to comply with a permit/license and or a educational program ? At whos cost ?

M Chambers

: I am seeing alot of flared tensions rearding this issue...it is an issue that I myself have long considered in need of attention and I find it unfortuante that :
: A - people here (all of us animal lovers) are bickering with one another regarding the right and wrong of it...

: B - nothing productive can come of such a split consensus and inner tensions.

: C - good people with good ideas and good hearts are feeling even MORE frustrated even trying to find solutions when they should be supported and encouraged to pursue animal rights and protection.

: Isn't fair and safe animal treatment what we ALL want here?
: Don't we all want the right to own and love and raise our pets?

:
: A few facts about animal pet trade politics...

: ~if you take away the animal from the market and call it 'illegal', the demand increases as supply decreases. This is just how it is (standard economic principle of supply/demand logistics). So what happens when ALL pet stores remove iguanas from the shelves is NO ONE can find an iguana for a pet at a reasonable price. Breeders are the only ones who can make money, and as the demand rises, the suppliers begin producing more - we end up with "Iggy-Mills" by breeders to meet the demands of the market. I don't know about everyone here - but I don't feel as if I should be forced to pay exorbitant prices for my animals just because of other people being irresponsible. I also know that placing all the market into the hands of so few breeders is a dangerous thing...

: ~ if legal transactions are limited to breeders only ,or eliminated - black market underground pet sales will still occur. Without the protection of the legal standards and such (no matter how inefficient I feel those are) these black market animals will be subjected to yet CRUELER circumstances in the pet trade industry. I don't want that.

: SO

: my suggestion for solving the problem would be to require an owners permit or licsencing for anyone who wants to own herps of any kind.
: It could be established that you pay a nominal fee each year as an owner then attend training sessions, etc. This educational part could be established for people to actually qualify to receive their permits. it could be like you have to complete an educational seminar program in herp care before your liscence will be issued...

: THEN - laws could be put into place that forbid anyone WITHOUT a licsence from purchasing any exotic in any store or from any breeder. Punishable by law...no one without training and who has taken the time to learn and think it all over can get a pet legally. This means that a minimum age requirement would be set, and there would be regulations on who could get an animal...

: Of course, this does not eliminate the illegal transactions, but we would be far more likely to see people jumping at the opportunity to become licsenced rather than losing the rights to own herps and exotics entirely.

: A herp handlers licsence could become a credential in the pet world that people could be proud of...it could open the way for membership in herp societies, make vet care less expensive, etc...it could be put together so it would really work well and protect the animals and the PEOPLE in the process. Pet shops that STILL wanted to carry the animals after this was put into place would be supporters of permitting, since that would be the only way to sell the animals, or they would choose on their own not to carry them. Either way, problem solved and no one loses..

:
: What do you all think?

Follow Ups:

Re: OK -a possible solution , way to intrusive as always...... marisa 05/12/01 (2)
- Correct me if I'm wrong.... Mr. D 05/13/01 (0)
- Re: what does "wait until he is 18" have to do with it ??? m chambers 05/13/01 (0)

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: before I read down on other post......once you get an intrusive law/regulation in motion then it creates problems for the general puplic. Wichita Ks. had a city ordinance passed on the sale of reptiles in pet stores that came back on the populance of the city. Where would the regulation/permit situation stop ? So what you are saying is if a kid wants a $2.99 chameoleon (Anolis carolinesis or Anole) he should have to comply with a permit/license and or a educational program ? At whos cost ? : M Chambers : : : I am seeing alot of flared tensions rearding this issue...it is an issue that I myself have long considered in need of attention and I find it unfortuante that : : : A - people here (all of us animal lovers) are bickering with one another regarding the right and wrong of it... : : B - nothing productive can come of such a split consensus and inner tensions. : : C - good people with good ideas and good hearts are feeling even MORE frustrated even trying to find solutions when they should be supported and encouraged to pursue animal rights and protection. : : Isn't fair and safe animal treatment what we ALL want here? : : Don't we all want the right to own and love and raise our pets? : : : : A few facts about animal pet trade politics... : : ~if you take away the animal from the market and call it 'illegal', the demand increases as supply decreases. This is just how it is (standard economic principle of supply/demand logistics). So what happens when ALL pet stores remove iguanas from the shelves is NO ONE can find an iguana for a pet at a reasonable price. Breeders are the only ones who can make money, and as the demand rises, the suppliers begin producing more - we end up with "Iggy-Mills" by breeders to meet the demands of the market. I don't know about everyone here - but I don't feel as if I should be forced to pay exorbitant prices for my animals just because of other people being irresponsible. I also know that placing all the market into the hands of so few breeders is a dangerous thing... : : ~ if legal transactions are limited to breeders only ,or eliminated - black market underground pet sales will still occur. Without the protection of the legal standards and such (no matter how inefficient I feel those are) these black market animals will be subjected to yet CRUELER circumstances in the pet trade industry. I don't want that. : : SO : : my suggestion for solving the problem would be to require an owners permit or licsencing for anyone who wants to own herps of any kind. : : It could be established that you pay a nominal fee each year as an owner then attend training sessions, etc. This educational part could be established for people to actually qualify to receive their permits. it could be like you have to complete an educational seminar program in herp care before your liscence will be issued... : : THEN - laws could be put into place that forbid anyone WITHOUT a licsence from purchasing any exotic in any store or from any breeder. Punishable by law...no one without training and who has taken the time to learn and think it all over can get a pet legally. This means that a minimum age requirement would be set, and there would be regulations on who could get an animal... : : Of course, this does not eliminate the illegal transactions, but we would be far more likely to see people jumping at the opportunity to become licsenced rather than losing the rights to own herps and exotics entirely. : : A herp handlers licsence could become a credential in the pet world that people could be proud of...it could open the way for membership in herp societies, make vet care less expensive, etc...it could be put together so it would really work well and protect the animals and the PEOPLE in the process. Pet shops that STILL wanted to carry the animals after this was put into place would be supporters of permitting, since that would be the only way to sell the animals, or they would choose on their own not to carry them. Either way, problem solved and no one loses.. : : : : What do you all think?

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