Re: Indicators of Abuse

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Posted by phantoms on January 08, 2001 at 00:51:19:

In Reply to: Indicators of Abuse posted by Lexi on January 07, 2001 at 20:38:23:

You are forgetting that sometimes the animals come to the petstores like that. so i think it is unfair to say that its the stores fault unless you can prove it. you walk into a store and see an iguana with a tail growing back and its thin. thats not a sign of abuse. it came from the shippers like that. a good store will fatten it up and work with it but like i said i think that saying that just cause its thin, missing tail, etc that the store is at fault than i think your wrong. given that some stores aren't caring for them but i work at a good store and i can say that all the animals that we order don't always come in looking good. also, i know that we take in iguanas (unfortuante that we do...owner marks up a huge price :( ) if we have room. we have had a few come in with bad, really bad cases of mnd. now you come in and say we are abusing that animal cause it looks bad? again you need to prove it. ( i would like to state that those bad cases we gave away to good qualified homes (friends of ours). heres a good example of unfairly saying that we weren't taking care of the animal. we had a red tail boa that wasn't for sale but out on the floor in a large cage. had signs of mouth rot but we were treating it the best we could. we would have moved it in back but we had no room. along comes some dumb stupid piece of $hit customer who knocks on the glass. the snake struck out and hit the glass and totally screwed his mouth. as soon as this happen we made plans to move stuff around and put it in back. the next day a dumb a$$ idiot decides to call some stupid health offical on us saying we weren't caring for the snake. which was BS. and blah blah blah. also, your starvation speel, sometimes we get animals in that just won't eat. thats not our fault. we work with them. (those animals aren't sold, if we can we keep them in back to monitor them) i think you should burn your new ideas (some of them) because they don't always apply. or have regulations added to them. at the most, i don't think they should be rules but guidelines so that the person investigating knows to ask the right questions and doesn't just point a finger at a store. perhaps i am reading into this all wrong..if so sorry

ideas.....overcrowded cages..no proper heat...cleanliness (which in a big petstore you try your best to get to everything but some things take priority and others can wait til the next day)....proper lighting.....

p.s. i think i repeated myself in my rant. sorry. i am not trying to pick a fight.

: I'm remaking the SPSAC's handbook and need some help with what to look for with the animals that would indicate abuse...

: So far for iguanas I have:

: "There should be no noticeable cuts, abscess (lumps) or abrasions on any iguanas in the store.

: Skinny tails, jutting hipbones, loose, saggy skin on legs, lateral folds, sunken eyes, or dull skin, missing scales, crinkly looking eyes, and missing claws are all signs of starvation or dehydration.

: Fluids or bubbles around the mouth or nose, and open mouth breathing indicate a respiratory infection and/or mouth rot.
: Yellow plaques around and in the mouth is mouth rot. Veterinary attention is required.

: Crooked backs indicate a calcium deficiency. Round, firm, thighs also indicate an advanced calcium deficiency.

: Flaccid or limp toes indicate possible fractures.

: Swollen, distended bellies may indicate impaction (substrate has been eaten and been lodged into the intestines), inadequate heat, parasites, inappropriate food, or dehydration."

: Can anyone add anything or offer any advice? Either would be GREATLY appreciated.

: Thanks!

Follow Ups:

I have a question for you, phantoms........... Harry's Dad 01/08/01 (1)
- we don't n/p phantoms 01/08/01 (0)
Re: Indicators of Abuse Lexi 01/08/01 (0)

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: You are forgetting that sometimes the animals come to the petstores like that. so i think it is unfair to say that its the stores fault unless you can prove it. you walk into a store and see an iguana with a tail growing back and its thin. thats not a sign of abuse. it came from the shippers like that. a good store will fatten it up and work with it but like i said i think that saying that just cause its thin, missing tail, etc that the store is at fault than i think your wrong. given that some stores aren't caring for them but i work at a good store and i can say that all the animals that we order don't always come in looking good. also, i know that we take in iguanas (unfortuante that we do...owner marks up a huge price :( ) if we have room. we have had a few come in with bad, really bad cases of mnd. now you come in and say we are abusing that animal cause it looks bad? again you need to prove it. ( i would like to state that those bad cases we gave away to good qualified homes (friends of ours). heres a good example of unfairly saying that we weren't taking care of the animal. we had a red tail boa that wasn't for sale but out on the floor in a large cage. had signs of mouth rot but we were treating it the best we could. we would have moved it in back but we had no room. along comes some dumb stupid piece of $hit customer who knocks on the glass. the snake struck out and hit the glass and totally screwed his mouth. as soon as this happen we made plans to move stuff around and put it in back. the next day a dumb a$$ idiot decides to call some stupid health offical on us saying we weren't caring for the snake. which was BS. and blah blah blah. also, your starvation speel, sometimes we get animals in that just won't eat. thats not our fault. we work with them. (those animals aren't sold, if we can we keep them in back to monitor them) i think you should burn your new ideas (some of them) because they don't always apply. or have regulations added to them. at the most, i don't think they should be rules but guidelines so that the person investigating knows to ask the right questions and doesn't just point a finger at a store. perhaps i am reading into this all wrong..if so sorry : ideas.....overcrowded cages..no proper heat...cleanliness (which in a big petstore you try your best to get to everything but some things take priority and others can wait til the next day)....proper lighting..... : p.s. i think i repeated myself in my rant. sorry. i am not trying to pick a fight. : : I'm remaking the SPSAC's handbook and need some help with what to look for with the animals that would indicate abuse... : : So far for iguanas I have: : : "There should be no noticeable cuts, abscess (lumps) or abrasions on any iguanas in the store. : : Skinny tails, jutting hipbones, loose, saggy skin on legs, lateral folds, sunken eyes, or dull skin, missing scales, crinkly looking eyes, and missing claws are all signs of starvation or dehydration. : : Fluids or bubbles around the mouth or nose, and open mouth breathing indicate a respiratory infection and/or mouth rot. : : Yellow plaques around and in the mouth is mouth rot. Veterinary attention is required. : : Crooked backs indicate a calcium deficiency. Round, firm, thighs also indicate an advanced calcium deficiency. : : Flaccid or limp toes indicate possible fractures. : : Swollen, distended bellies may indicate impaction (substrate has been eaten and been lodged into the intestines), inadequate heat, parasites, inappropriate food, or dehydration." : : Can anyone add anything or offer any advice? Either would be GREATLY appreciated. : : Thanks!

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