Re:YES

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Posted by Ingo on April 25, 2000 at 04:39:54:

In Reply to: taking your thought further posted by cwatbay on April 24, 2000 at 21:58:14:

Good postings CW, I totaly agree.
Domestication is a sophiosticated process and takes LOTS of generations. We tend to oversee that, since colors and other physical traits are very easy to select for by breeders and so captive animals may look quite different to their wild sipplings even after a few generations (think of designer leos, cornsnakes, budgies etc). But when it comes to behavioural traits, changes take much longer. The blue and yellow large budgie has no detectable behavioural changes in comparison to the wild small green aussie bird and to an amazing extend this is even true for the long time domesticated Pig, which immediately shows all behavioural aspects of the wild boar if set free in an apt environment (there are scientific studies about that).
And as you say: Mammals and birds are much more flexible in their behavioural aspects as reptiles. Moreover, sociality in reptiles CAN be an issue (and for igs it definitely is!) -but relationships between individuals have in general nothing or little to do with personal affection but are just part inborn interaction schems evolved within millions of years.
So we can expect the "more intelligent" lizards (i.e. in general larger, at least partial social species)to learn to interact with humans within the narrow freedom of their inborn behavioural schems but we can not expect to get true affection as well as we can not expect to chance their environmental needs within the next few thousand years. So even if there will be white or blue bob tailed grinning igs around (hopefully not!) within a few generations, we will still have to treat them as their wild living brothers and sisters.
Everything different is wrong and generally caused by -sadly widespread- anthropomorphistic thinking of herpers.

Thats my 2 cts on the topic

Ci@o

Ingo

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: Good postings CW, I totaly agree. : Domestication is a sophiosticated process and takes LOTS of generations. We tend to oversee that, since colors and other physical traits are very easy to select for by breeders and so captive animals may look quite different to their wild sipplings even after a few generations (think of designer leos, cornsnakes, budgies etc). But when it comes to behavioural traits, changes take much longer. The blue and yellow large budgie has no detectable behavioural changes in comparison to the wild small green aussie bird and to an amazing extend this is even true for the long time domesticated Pig, which immediately shows all behavioural aspects of the wild boar if set free in an apt environment (there are scientific studies about that). : And as you say: Mammals and birds are much more flexible in their behavioural aspects as reptiles. Moreover, sociality in reptiles CAN be an issue (and for igs it definitely is!) -but relationships between individuals have in general nothing or little to do with personal affection but are just part inborn interaction schems evolved within millions of years. : So we can expect the "more intelligent" lizards (i.e. in general larger, at least partial social species)to learn to interact with humans within the narrow freedom of their inborn behavioural schems but we can not expect to get true affection as well as we can not expect to chance their environmental needs within the next few thousand years. So even if there will be white or blue bob tailed grinning igs around (hopefully not!) within a few generations, we will still have to treat them as their wild living brothers and sisters. : Everything different is wrong and generally caused by -sadly widespread- anthropomorphistic thinking of herpers. : Thats my 2 cts on the topic : Ci@o : Ingo

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