Notes on subspeices and such... (long)

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Posted by Matt Campbell on November 12, 1999 at 12:09:36:

In Reply to: Re: Iguana sub-species.........very long ramble......... :) posted by harry's Dad on November 12, 1999 at 03:26:01:

Harry's Dad,
I'll have to do some looking through some old class notes and see what the criteria are for subspecific classification. Oftentimes, differences in physical appearance are all that is needed to warrant classification as subspecies, but then taxonomists and cladists get into the picture and whoosh! there goes the subspp. designation right out the window. I believe what usually is the case is designations of certain localities for a spp. as is the case with Boa constrictor spp. That's one that had many subspp. designations that have been all but eliminated in the last few years. Now I was looking in my old Iguana manual, written by DeVosjoli, and they had a photo of an iguana with nose horns and said that feature was characteristic of iguanas from Guatemala, which goes along with your mention of Central America. Pepe, the little beastie (or Little Beastie - tongue in cheek - as he's often called), is still what I'd classify as a juvenile. He weighs about 750 grams or so and still has the young iguana green coloration. He does have brown bars on the tail and along his sides. He's begun to develop the larger jowls and his femoral pores are quite pronounced already (approx. age 1 3/4 years), also the high dorsal crest, and as for his horns, he has nasal horns but they're not overly prominent - he has two of them and an infintesimal stub of one. The bigger horns are only about 2mm tall right now, but they seem to grow as much as the dorsal spines do. Also there's the issue of the blue coloration, no where near as much as is found on the Peruvian localities, but he has large amounts on his head and neck. Often his head will be a dull greyish color but then two hours later it will take on a faint turquoise shade that matches the turquoise in the subtympanic scale and sprinkled around the tubercle scales on the neck. Hmm... so where does that leave us? I'll wait for that map to see where you place the certain characteristics. Right now I'm thinking Pepe is probably from Guatemala which would go along with being farm-raised. I'll post a photo of him in the next few days.
Cheers,
Matt Campbell

: Matt,

: My Mexican did have four horns on his nose. He's down to 2 1/2 now. He also has very long spikes, some as long as 1 3/4 inches.
: But if your iguana is more green then shades of brown, I would be thinkin' it's from the northern area of Central America. Northern Central American iguanas also have a mix of brown patches on their bodies too. I've seen around a dozen of these types but have yet to figure out how the cross breeding was done because of the shapes of these iguanas features. Other then the brown patches, they look more like northern S.A. iguanas. I'll post a map on a theory I have to this in the next couple of days. Regional areas see cross breeding between the two "different" iguanas. But this is only my opinion, with the research I've done on regional iguanas and what I have found. I also believe these are sub-species and should be labeled as such. Why scientist/researchers don't label them as such, I have yet to figure out, other than, they don't have enough differences to be sub-species. To me, nose horns, long spikes, narrow head, color difference, longer body, etc.. are enough differences to call for a sub-species listing.
: Other than, Harry's mood right now, I like the Mexican iguana over Central and S.A. versions and would like to see the day when you could purchase iguanas by regional species. Because as it sits right now, you would be very lucky to be getting a mexican iguana from a pet store. I would of liked to have been able to track the origin of Harry, to find out just how this iguana got into the US, but since he was a rescue and the couple wasn't too concerned about anything to do with him, I doubt I would ever find out any rewarding information from them. I've only seen one other iguana that was even close to the coloring of Harry and it's to my understanding it's rare for mexican's to be shipped into the country. Central American iguanas are seen on a regular bases and of course, South American are too.
: HD

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: Harry's Dad, : I'll have to do some looking through some old class notes and see what the criteria are for subspecific classification. Oftentimes, differences in physical appearance are all that is needed to warrant classification as subspecies, but then taxonomists and cladists get into the picture and whoosh! there goes the subspp. designation right out the window. I believe what usually is the case is designations of certain localities for a spp. as is the case with Boa constrictor spp. That's one that had many subspp. designations that have been all but eliminated in the last few years. Now I was looking in my old Iguana manual, written by DeVosjoli, and they had a photo of an iguana with nose horns and said that feature was characteristic of iguanas from Guatemala, which goes along with your mention of Central America. Pepe, the little beastie (or Little Beastie - tongue in cheek - as he's often called), is still what I'd classify as a juvenile. He weighs about 750 grams or so and still has the young iguana green coloration. He does have brown bars on the tail and along his sides. He's begun to develop the larger jowls and his femoral pores are quite pronounced already (approx. age 1 3/4 years), also the high dorsal crest, and as for his horns, he has nasal horns but they're not overly prominent - he has two of them and an infintesimal stub of one. The bigger horns are only about 2mm tall right now, but they seem to grow as much as the dorsal spines do. Also there's the issue of the blue coloration, no where near as much as is found on the Peruvian localities, but he has large amounts on his head and neck. Often his head will be a dull greyish color but then two hours later it will take on a faint turquoise shade that matches the turquoise in the subtympanic scale and sprinkled around the tubercle scales on the neck. Hmm... so where does that leave us? I'll wait for that map to see where you place the certain characteristics. Right now I'm thinking Pepe is probably from Guatemala which would go along with being farm-raised. I'll post a photo of him in the next few days. : Cheers, : Matt Campbell : : : Matt, : : My Mexican did have four horns on his nose. He's down to 2 1/2 now. He also has very long spikes, some as long as 1 3/4 inches. : : But if your iguana is more green then shades of brown, I would be thinkin' it's from the northern area of Central America. Northern Central American iguanas also have a mix of brown patches on their bodies too. I've seen around a dozen of these types but have yet to figure out how the cross breeding was done because of the shapes of these iguanas features. Other then the brown patches, they look more like northern S.A. iguanas. I'll post a map on a theory I have to this in the next couple of days. Regional areas see cross breeding between the two "different" iguanas. But this is only my opinion, with the research I've done on regional iguanas and what I have found. I also believe these are sub-species and should be labeled as such. Why scientist/researchers don't label them as such, I have yet to figure out, other than, they don't have enough differences to be sub-species. To me, nose horns, long spikes, narrow head, color difference, longer body, etc.. are enough differences to call for a sub-species listing. : : Other than, Harry's mood right now, I like the Mexican iguana over Central and S.A. versions and would like to see the day when you could purchase iguanas by regional species. Because as it sits right now, you would be very lucky to be getting a mexican iguana from a pet store. I would of liked to have been able to track the origin of Harry, to find out just how this iguana got into the US, but since he was a rescue and the couple wasn't too concerned about anything to do with him, I doubt I would ever find out any rewarding information from them. I've only seen one other iguana that was even close to the coloring of Harry and it's to my understanding it's rare for mexican's to be shipped into the country. Central American iguanas are seen on a regular bases and of course, South American are too. : : HD

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